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Star Gate Universe |
Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
|  Posted: 2009-12-11 17:14
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On 2009-12-11 09:56, The Red-Nosed Dreadnought wrote:
Well simple, the ancients have been around for a long long time, the technology on Destiny is alot alot older no question. Remember the Ark of Truth? the beginning, how long ago it was, that was even before Destiny was launched and they had some good technology. They've obviously been around much longer than you think.
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I have no issue with the idea that they have been around for a long time, the point I was making is I don’t buy that there is a 90,000 year gap in technology between the Destiny and Atlantis. Maybe a few hundred years, but I do not think it is possible for technology to progress that slowly.
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It's against the laws of ascended beings... It's complicated. |
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There aren’t though. In a few episodes they clearly say that there are no rules or laws of ascended beings, that the rules they follow are out of self-governance not any universal restriction.
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This was explained in the beginning of the series, the ancients seeded pegasus with stargates and life
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Yeah, they did. I wrote this late at night.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2009-12-11 18:43
Another interesting point is the language... In SG-1 they often made comments on this was tablet or that was in an offshoot or older dialect of Ancient so they were having trouble with it...
Language changes, over time, and differently between geographically seperated groups. Look at American vs British English... We even spell words differently - Color, Colour.... Fair, Faire... Another example is Spanish in Spain is vastly different than the Spanish they speak in central and south america. I was in Spain with a couple of guys from Mexico and they could barely understand the Spanish and vice versa.
Words change their meaning, some take 100 years, some in as little as one generation.
The name Paris, Mercedes, Shannon are now considered girls names, yet they were originally Guy names.
So how is it they can so easily read the ancient (when they can access it) on the Destiny? If its 100,000 years older than the ancient on Atlantis, which they are fairly well versed now, how has it not changed over time or even fractured into a different dialect because of seperation?
The systems are also suppose to be 100,000 years less advanced... They already know how to work the more advanced systems and how to hack into the more advance technology. How hard should it be for them to figure out and hack into this technology thats that much older and obsolete by the period they are use to?
Another point that the show cant keep right is the time line... In some episodes they claim the ships are 100,000 years old and in others they claim millions... Kind of a huge gap there...
The Ancients supposedly ascended around 10,000 years ago, but not all at the same time or pace. That was eluded to as well on Atlantis when they found the planet where in the cave you passed a time dialation field and 6 months there was 3 days outside. It was set up to allow other Ancients meet up and work towards their ascension without fear of the Wrath. They also stated that not all ancients actually reached ascension and interbred with the lower cast humans. Hence how some people got the ancient gene.
Sadly though, a little research finds that the reason there is so little canon is that the main producers and writers for all three shows are completely different people and ignore each others canon quite often. Even as far as completely changing it or invalidating it completely.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2009-12-11 19:19
I like the techy bits but cant stand the slow progression compared to Atlantis. Wheres Coeus anywho? Hes the resident SG boff if I remember correctly... Hell tell you whats what.
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SpaceGK
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 26, 2009
Posts: 323
From: Ontario, Canada
| Posted: 2009-12-12 08:47
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On 2009-12-11 18:43, Tael wrote:
The systems are also suppose to be 100,000 years less advanced... They already know how to work the more advanced systems and how to hack into the more advance technology. How hard should it be for them to figure out and hack into this technology thats that much older and obsolete by the period they are use to?
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u try using human technology thats 100,000 years old. i doubt that ull be great at it. ya it wont be as complicated as doing something simple like replacing a computers harddrive. my point is if u dont know how to use something proporly -even old crappy things- then it might not be as easy as it sounds. (srry theres no 100,000 year old computers to compare this to) maybe an engine from the first automobile to the moderen one now would be better? thats only what? 100 years and its deffinatly changed alot. or aircrafts---started with propeller engines, and progressed to jet engines. (yes i relize props r still used today but thats becide the point)
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Another point that the show cant keep right is the time line... In some episodes they claim the ships are 100,000 years old and in others they claim millions... Kind of a huge gap there...
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i think at the begining of every SGU episode when they're saying whats happened on the show so far, Rush can be heard saying the age of the ship. unfortionatly i dont remember what his sais tho. im sure someone knows or can set me straight if im completly wrong
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The Ancients supposedly ascended around 10,000 years ago, but not all at the same time or pace. That was eluded to as well on Atlantis when they found the planet where in the cave you passed a time dialation field and 6 months there was 3 days outside. It was set up to allow other Ancients meet up and work towards their ascension without fear of the Wrath. They also stated that not all ancients actually reached ascension and interbred with the lower cast humans. Hence how some people got the ancient gene.
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i fail to see what u see wrong with this...
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Sadly though, a little research finds that the reason there is so little canon is that the main producers and writers for all three shows are completely different people and ignore each others canon quite often. Even as far as completely changing it or invalidating it completely.
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some things have to be "tweaked" if u will, to help advace the show. most of these things have some kind of explination berried deep somehwere in the SG series. but yes there is the odd thing that cant be explained. but then again we dont know every single thing that they do. we havent read all of dr. jackson's notes to know about the ancients history and so on. theres of corse things that they dont know either.
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Nax
Marshal
Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 768
| Posted: 2009-12-12 12:05
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3) ...ship batteries...
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[/quote]This was actually explained multiple times in the show. The batteries (power storage matrix) is old and failing. Like with rechargable batteries now, they lose capacity over time and multiple recharges. They even said, that by their best guess, the ship might only have 40% of its original power capacity. This is also part of the plot mechanism that they use to justify limited planet stargate ranges.[/quote]
I think this is a little incorrect or incomplete. Remember how the ship has a lot of damage to it? They also talked about how it seemed like the ship had been in a battle of some kind. In addition to simply failing like our battery technology does over time, I suspect it's a lot more than that and could even become part of future plot elements as they further explore the ship.
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Which is interesting since we've already had alien bugs in multiple episodes and how about the space ship that you see at the end of (I think Air) un-docking and flying off just before the credits.
Anyone else notice it looks decissively like the one they found on the planet and left Rush on? |
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I had noticed the launch in the opening credits and had noticed the similarity. Still have to wonder whether it'll be Rush "returning" to the crew or coming back to "do unto" the Colonel.
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 There is no significant plot.
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They are trying to meld several show ideas into one, and failing at it I feel. But what they stated in the shows synopsis was it was about taking people, throwing them in an isolated situation with no idea of where they are or how to get home. Just 150 people left to their own designs.
Adding the comm stones really took away from that though.
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I can see that they're failing. I would note that when DS9 first started, I know I needed a season or two to start to like the series and then it sort of took off although at least one season was so-so. Same with SG: Atlantis. It needed the second season before it settled out a bit...it still wasn't quite the same show as the original.
Too much of a trap where they're "one-upping" the last accomplishments. You know..."survive against the Go'uld", then "Kill one", then "Kill Many", "become a power in the galaxy", "assist the Asgard", then "defeat the Replicators", then "Defeat the Wraith when the ancients couldn't", then "Defeat the Ori...godlike beings on a power level with the Ascended Ancients".
What's next? Is there anything further they could do that's on an even larger scale? Perhaps it's just enough that they're further away than they've ever been before.
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| Thus far the show ranks a 4/10 with me. |
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Not to be mean, but I think your description of playing Eve and doing homework while watching SGU shows. You didn't understand a lot of the plot or story.
I remember having to explain to my brother (who actually was really watching it) that the crew wasn't developing multiple personalities but that they were using the communication stones and exchanging conciousness across intergalactic distances. Just that explanation really changed his perception of the show.
I'm not saying the show is awesome. I'm still waiting for them to really draw me in but I 100% expected it would take at least until the second second for that to happen.
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SpaceGK
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 26, 2009
Posts: 323
From: Ontario, Canada
| Posted: 2009-12-12 12:39
[quote]
On 2009-12-12 12:05, Nax wrote:
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3) ...ship batteries...
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This was actually explained multiple times in the show. The batteries (power storage matrix) is old and failing. Like with rechargable batteries now, they lose capacity over time and multiple recharges. They even said, that by their best guess, the ship might only have 40% of its original power capacity. This is also part of the plot mechanism that they use to justify limited planet stargate ranges.
I think this is a little incorrect or incomplete. Remember how the ship has a lot of damage to it? They also talked about how it seemed like the ship had been in a battle of some kind. In addition to simply failing like our battery technology does over time, I suspect it's a lot more than that and could even become part of future plot elements as they further explore the ship.
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the ony other thing that i can see coming into play with the power issues is since the ship was badly damaged alot of its power conduits and lines and what not were damaged or destroyed. this cant help the effiecicy of the ship at all. i know they did some repairs but i really doubt they fixed it all.
now lets all continue to pick apart the show and figure out every single flaw instaed of just watching, enjoying, and living with it :
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-12-12 14:17
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On 2009-12-12 12:05, Nax wrote:
Too much of a trap where they're "one-upping" the last accomplishments. You know..."survive against the Go'uld", then "Kill one", then "Kill Many", "become a power in the galaxy", "assist the Asgard", then "defeat the Replicators", then "Defeat the Wraith when the ancients couldn't", then "Defeat the Ori...godlike beings on a power level with the Ascended Ancients".
What's next? Is there anything further they could do that's on an even larger scale? Perhaps it's just enough that they're further away than they've ever been before.
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I don't think they really need to one up themselves, before the Ori came into the show they had a few cool episodes about the galaxy in chaos caused by the sudden power vacuum and the Lucian Alliance bidding for control. Now with Ori gone and the Lucian Alliance apparently stronger then ever the Milkyway is left in the same position, and I think you could draw a lot of cool story ideas from that.
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SpaceGK
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 26, 2009
Posts: 323
From: Ontario, Canada
| Posted: 2009-12-12 18:44
Hopefully SGU doesnt get cacelled for atleast a few seasons cause i personally think its a grat show 
[ This Message was edited by: spacegatekid08 on 2009-12-12 18:45 ]
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2009-12-12 22:43
I stand by the belief it will be lucky to finish this season and IF it gets that chance, it will only make it to the next by being EPIC interesting in the next few episodes.
Remember I said the mid-season finale sank to a series low 1.34mil viewers?
To help clarify that number, I looked up other shows.
Sanctuary averages 3mil and V averages 10-14mil.
With the 3mil Sanctuary pulls being considered 'good' by Syfy executive standards, it would seem that a value of less than half that MIGHT be enough to get you through to finish the season. It's hard to be sure.
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ADmiraLMaXimus (Bringer of Doom)
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 363
From: Earth
| Posted: 2009-12-13 14:38
The origin of the Ancients is 300,000 years before Atlantis was built....
Before they seeded the Pegasus Galaxy the Ancients began existance in the Ori Galaxy they became space fairing and an advanced civilization about 225,000 years pre Atlantis.. but a civil war between them split their civilization apart hens began the reign of the ORI...
The Ancients that remained then began seeding Pegasus and began construction of the Stargate system in the Pegasus Galaxy 190,000 years before Atlantis...
at 150000 years before Atlantis was built the Ancients began launching probes, gate processors and then eventually they would launch Destiny.. which was ment to allow them to eventually transport to and allow them to explore the rest of the universe....
when the first probe sent info about Earth they used that planet as a hub for them to begin exploring the milkyway galaxy and project destiny was under construction and to be launched from earth...
by 140,000 years before Atlantis the ancients began building stargates in the milkyway...
by 130,000 years before Atlantis Destiny was launched from earth to follow the probes and gate processors which were given a 20,000 year head start ...
90,000 years pre Atlantis the ancients began an alliance with the furlings, knox, and the Asgard to fight the first wave of the ORI from trying to expand into other galaxys...
70,000 years pre Atlantis the ancients with their aliance, defeated the ORI
army and began construction of Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy...
along witht the aliance came new types of tech for all civilizations ancients began using Hyper Drives Via Asgard Tech and Asgard shared Ancients Shields...
between 70,000 and 60,000 years ago Atlantis was completed and upragded sevreal times until its true completion at 60,000 years ago
the alliance between the 4 races was kept only to share knowledge mainly after the war with the ORI...
about 50,000 years ago the Ancients began having trouble with a new unknown species which began taking some of their colonys in the Pegasus Galaxy...
40,000 years ago the war against the wraith began.... because of the war with the wraith project Destiny was not completed...
after 30,000 years of an un-winable war the ancients abandandoned Atlantis and the war... most went thru the stargate to earth while others used their New Hyper Drives to get there....
the wraith fed on the Pegasus Galaxy and went into hybernation till the food AKA Humanoid population went back up... small groups of wraith kept farming the Pegasus Galaxy and kept tabs on the Galactic Population there.
the Ancients learned to Ascend between 10,000 and 15,000 years ago
eventually the Furlings and the Asgard went extinct although the Asgard gave Humanity all their tech...
The Knox survived by making themselves invisibly and peacefull...
Although most ancients did infact ascend there are some descendants of the Ancients in the Milkyway and Pegasus Galaxy...
eventually by using a truely ancient device made by (merlin) The ascended ORI were destroyed then another one called the ark of truth was used was used to stop the ORI followers by showing them the tuth of the ancients..
however you have seen all the action and drama that has unfolded within Pegasus and the Milkyway so just imagine what can be done with another one or an entire universe
anyway have fun 
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-12-13 15:09
Uhh, not exactly.
Ancients (Altarians) and Ori were of the same species millions of years ago in another galaxy. The war started, the Altarians left the Ori galaxy & settled on Earth in the Milky Way. From there they built their empire spanning thousands of worlds.
From the standpoint of the different series, the timeline gets fuzzy. Atlantis' premier clearly states that Atlantis was built & stationed on Earth about a million years ago, which is when the SG-1 series dictated that most of the Altarians started to be infected by a plague (presumed to be Ori in origin during Seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1). The surviving Altarians took off in Atlantis for the Pegaseus galaxy.
During the subsequent time (figure a tens of thousands of years) the surviving Altarians in the Milkey Way both figured out how to ascend & built the Dakara Superweapon to re-seed the Milkey Way with human life. The remaining Milky Way Altarians died off & ascended, leaving their species extinct.
Atlantis and the Lantians thrived in the Pegaseus galaxy for on the order of several hundreds of thousands of years, until the war with the Wraith began. Their numbers dwindled and their territories fell until only Atlantis remained, and ten thousand years ago the surviving Lantians abandoned Atlantis & let it sink into the sea. Some of them ascended on the time-accelerated planet, most of them fled through the Stargate back to Earth.
Ten thousand years ago the reborn-humans seeded by Dakara had once again began to thrive on Earth, but they were primitive. The Lantians decided to go their separate ways. Some went into seclusion and medatation to learn to ascend. Some "went native" and began spreading the "Ancient Gene" that much of the more advanced Lantian/Altarian technology is based on.
This is where the storylines become serious FUBARs because of the different writers mentioned previously.
The navigation path clearly dictates that the ship launched from the Milky Way, and I believe Earth specifically, now the tech of the ship is fairly clearly pre-Atlantis, but it was launched hundreds of thousands of years ago, whereas Atlantis was launched from Earth a million years ago (and could have been around for who knows how long before that?).
While clearly just poor research & even poor-er writing is the fault of the timeline fubar, there is a reasonable explaination if we think about it: At the time that Atlantis was built & launched, it was at the same level of technology as Destiny and it's sister-seeder ships. It is only over time (lots and lots of time) that the technology Atlantis submerged with 10,000 years ago was built & incorporated into the city.
This, however doesn't explain why the tech all seems to be originally intigrated, or how the Chair Platforms got to be the same tech level sitting in Antarctica and Paclarush Taeonas. Again, falls back on piss poor writing.
If you read all that and are still reading... I have a reason to be sitting here typing all this, I'm waiting for someone, what's your excuse?
Listos/tl;dr - Shows writers suck ass. Shows actors suck more ass. Show itself sucks most ass. Won't last 2 seasons IMO, may well kill the SG franchise. Will continue to watch (or, at least leave it on the TV while I do something interesting like fold my socks) in hopes that it gets better, don't have any hope then (better this way: can't be disappointed).
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SpaceGK
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 26, 2009
Posts: 323
From: Ontario, Canada
| Posted: 2009-12-13 15:43
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From the standpoint of the different series, the timeline gets fuzzy. Atlantis' premier clearly states that Atlantis was built & stationed on Earth about a million years ago, which is when the SG-1 series dictated that most of the Altarians started to be infected by a plague (presumed to be Ori in origin during Seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1). The surviving Altarians took off in Atlantis for the Pegaseus galaxy.
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The navigation path clearly dictates that the ship launched from the Milky Way, and I believe Earth specifically, now the tech of the ship is fairly clearly pre-Atlantis, but it was launched hundreds of thousands of years ago, whereas Atlantis was launched from Earth a million years ago (and could have been around for who knows how long before that?).
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r u sure atlantis is a million years old?
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ADmiraLMaXimus (Bringer of Doom)
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 363
From: Earth
| Posted: 2009-12-13 17:35
well since everything is fiction anything can be true from a certain point of view ...
there are no historical docements that make anything we say about anything having to do with this topic true unless there are episodes about every aspect of the stargate story for the past millions of years or the books state clearly the fictional information regarding...
so everyone is correct for the most part just use your imagination
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-12-13 20:20
@spacegate: Yes.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-12-13 22:22
According to that more then a million.
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| JACKSON: I figure the Ancients packed up their entire city and left somewhere between five and ten million years ago.
O'NEILL: In their ... flying city.
JACKSON: Yes.
(O'Neill tries to hide a smile.)
JACKSON: What?
O'NEILL (smirking): Flying city.
JACKSON: Well, keep in mind this is the race that built the Stargates. They did everything big.
O'NEILL: So why'd they leave?
JACKSON: Why'd they leave? Um, who knows? We know the Ancients on Earth were suffering from a plague. Uh, maybe some of them were trying to start over, seeding life in a new galaxy. Maybe that's what Ancients do. The point is, we know where they went. |
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