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Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
|  Posted: 2010-03-25 19:05
Also the planetary defences are still way too weak, even a scout can hug an enemy planet if he wants too.
Maybe that needs looking into also.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-25 19:13
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On 2010-03-25 17:26, -Jackal- wrote:
I would say, Make planetary sensor bases show ALL enemies within say, 500 GU. prolly means no more ecm bombing, but at least uggies and icc will have a chance against luth trannies.
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Only problem is kluth trannies are easier to destroy due to armor and hull. That's why I said remove their cloak and give them human-equivalent armor, because they'll either be destroyed or it's a suicide run every time if they're visible from 500gu away.
Human transports at least have the armor and sometimes shields to withstand some counterattack, and maybe even get away after dropping.
Another problem is planet size differences. 500gu away from a tiny planet is much different than from a huge planet, because it calculates from the center not from the surface.
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Riley!
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 29, 2002
Posts: 257
| Posted: 2010-03-25 19:33
Hi.
Keep in mind you can't balance a game 100%.
It would be predictable and no fun.
Dark Space will always have its balance issues, as will most other multiple teams game that is under ongoing development.
There will always be bugs as long as there are always new features.
There is no large corporate development department full of developers eger to perfect the source code at palestars disposal.
The developers for Dark Space volunteer their services. Meaning they are coding this game for free. Taking time out of their lives to continue the upkeep of what is now a free to play game.
The whole purpose of this is for your entertainment.
Out of all the post on darkspace, I see more post complaining of game bugs and patch updates than I see post that say "Staff of Dark Space, thank you so much for so graciously devoting time out of your lifes to ensure this games quality and survival. Your selflessness one day will pay off. Maybe youll get admin flags."
What a bunch of jerks you people are 
Anyway..
Krill Armadas
People will probably be more willing to take on other roles and fly other ship variants when grouping is (re)introduced. Perhaps then you will see less Krills. Thats how it worked before when we had groups.
Kluth Tranny Rushing is simple to fix and balance... create a new cloak drive for kluth transports with the same principals of the standard cloak drive but with these modifications:
Increase the cloak and decloak time for Kluth Transport
-This will allow you enough time to notice the incoming transport and give you a chance to setup a defense against it.
Increase cloak energy usage for Kluth Transport
- Enough to allow for it to travel 800 or so GU's at any speed above 3 gu's while cloaked before it runs out of energy and is forced to decloak.
This will in most cases prevent the transport from being able to cloak right out of jump and make it all the way to orbit the planet while remaining cloaked.
Final modification to the ship layout:
Increase armor to counter the loss of cloak effectiveness:
-To counter the decrease in effectiveness of cloak for this ship, slightly increase armor.
Add some time to beta test the new cloak and armor, adjusting values as needed and maybe this will end the kluth transport advantage.
Much Luv,
<3 Riley
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Meoiswa
Admiral
Joined: September 21, 2005
Posts: 13
From: Venezuela
| Posted: 2010-03-25 19:35
If a single tranny could re-capture a planet then it means that the fleet that attempted to capture failed to follow some basic rules to ensure the capture is successfull:
A) Bring enough infantry to instantly place the planet on its optimal range
B) Shut down the planet while friendlies bring more infantry, that way if control is lost then planet wont turn its weaponry against the fleet.
C) Be prepared to hold the enemy if something happens
and most important:
D) Attack a planet you can ensure you will win (Its pointless to attack a planet heavily fortified, and reinforced by enemy fleets with similar strenght, even more if you already know the enemy can sneak past your defenses and attack a planet directly)
I doubt what happened was because of the way the game works, but because of human error.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-25 20:56
Cloak 1 - Old cloak system, effected by ecm. Use on tranny, scout, frigate.
Cloak 2 - Current cloak. Use on everything else.
Will be interesting not being able to be near a planet at all.
It is also very sad to see that the playerbase has fallen to such a poor level of skill, that none of the stations that generally make up a ugto fleet had troops to counter with. Or that nobody could swap to a scout bomber to knock out the troops quickly. Or switch to bombers. Or just pull a new tranny and drop lites. Or cross into lac, and retrieve infantry to reinforce with.
Im sorry, but these are just standard tactics people.
How about more eccm? More sensors? A scout with beacons who knows better than to flash all of his eccm at once? Spreading out around the planet and pinging?
Seriously??? Ya'll are crying with all the above tactics I just listed?
Ok. How about lifting up your infantry moments before they die, letting them heal in your ship, and then redropping. Yeah, they should be hards or leets by then.
Too quick to blame the game. Certain devs too quick to jump on an anti-Kluth bandwagon. Funny, I dont see any greenshirted Kluth anymore. Ever. I see one dev honest enough to shop around and try the angles of the different factions. Yet, you all propose to think you really know what your doing. I think its sad, yet hillarious at the same time.
(in all of this I dont condone some jackass ruining a good battle for his own stupid pleasure. Smart Kluth should prefer to hunt the talking monkies when they show their faces, and be happy when they congregate in a nice buffet table for us)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-25 22:32
I gather that the planet ZooKeep was whining about was newly taken and had only a handful of troops on the surface? Highly likely.
Tranny rushing is done by all sides. I've seen UGTO bomb a planet down to 5 or less inf, then sending a tranny in to close drop his load of 10.
*Capped*
So what? So you grab a few more inf from a nearby planet and redrop in again on the planet. At that moment, they probably only have less than 10 units on the surface.
Or would you prefer to log in disgust just because you no longer dominate all planets in Sag? LOL.
What fun is there in a game that is completely balanced, but having all factions being reskinned clones of each other? It's like that piece of crap, Command and Conquer, or some other RTS where all units have an equivalent of each other on the opposing team. Boring.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-25 22:33 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-25 22:43
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On 2010-03-25 17:04, Challenger wrote:
4.) The KLUTH trannie stays cloaked till he is right next to the planet. Uncloaks and drops his inf then recloaks and gets the frap out of their. Captures the planet by himself and it frustrates an entire fleet that had to work together to get it in the first place and now it is lost to one person.
I mean come on you do not see a flaw in this? You are the same type of person who would not see a flaw in cloud bombing a planet and the whole planet gets wiped out from one cloud.... sure....
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Isn't that a part of the mechanics of the game? Kluths cloak, and become almost impossible to detect. So cloak tranny rushing becomes part of their Ninja tactics. What is wrong with that?
I've seen UGTO dreads tractor supply or weapon plats around in battles. They were meant to be deployed around planets orginally, but brilliant players have found creative uses of these stationary platforms.
I like that. Shows that we're thinking.
- Bring them out into deep space to be used as hidden resupply points.
- Tractor them in front of dreads to be used as additional weapons or supply points, or even decoys to be shot at by stupid AI or planetary defs.
So?
Should all of these be considered "out of gameplay" and forbidden then?
Make Kluth trannies unable to cloak, or detectable at a given range from a planet just 'cos you got tranny rushed?
What would you suggest?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-25 22:45 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-25 23:01
Quote:
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On 2010-03-25 20:56, Azreal wrote:
Cloak 1 - Old cloak system, effected by ecm. Use on tranny, scout, frigate.
Cloak 2 - Current cloak. Use on everything else.
Will be interesting not being able to be near a planet at all.
It is also very sad to see that the playerbase has fallen to such a poor level of skill, that none of the stations that generally make up a ugto fleet had troops to counter with. Or that nobody could swap to a scout bomber to knock out the troops quickly. Or switch to bombers. Or just pull a new tranny and drop lites. Or cross into lac, and retrieve infantry to reinforce with.
Im sorry, but these are just standard tactics people.
How about more eccm? More sensors? A scout with beacons who knows better than to flash all of his eccm at once? Spreading out around the planet and pinging?
Seriously??? Ya'll are crying with all the above tactics I just listed?
Ok. How about lifting up your infantry moments before they die, letting them heal in your ship, and then redropping. Yeah, they should be hards or leets by then.
Too quick to blame the game. Certain devs too quick to jump on an anti-Kluth bandwagon. Funny, I dont see any greenshirted Kluth anymore. Ever. I see one dev honest enough to shop around and try the angles of the different factions. Yet, you all propose to think you really know what your doing. I think its sad, yet hillarious at the same time.
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Couldnt explain better.
Also, as some of people mentioned the desire of krill nerfing.. Well , darkspace will have to refund all mounted enhancements of my krills. Just saying ..
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-25 23:08
Quote:
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On 2010-03-25 22:43, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Make Kluth trannies unable to cloak, or detectable at a given range from a planet just 'cos you got tranny rushed?
What would you suggest?
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The problem is like I said, that range will greatly affect it's effectiveness based on the planet's size. For larger planets, at 500gu away the transport will be practically at close-jump drop range already. For small planets like Lesser Boonie, 500gu away is pretty far.
It's definitely not the ideal solution.
I would say the biggest problem with tranny rushing now is the fact that you can instantly spawn at any sy and quickly grab 10 more infantry, then quickly spawn at the gate nearest your target planet. If you want to really speed things up, crash your tranny, spawn a new one at a sy, grab 10 inf, spawn at gate nearest to target planet, rush in and drop, crash, repeat with different sy.
IMO, the easy availability of infantry is the biggest problem.
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EvilThought (TWP)
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 15, 2004
Posts: 8
| Posted: 2010-03-25 23:09
1st off kenny naboo if your not gonna read the 1st post and on before flamming just dont postl , also just because you can do something in a game does not mean your supposed to or it was ment to be by the devs
suur yes there were plenty of players on some even better then good old spartan and we all agreed to not tranny rush war with coombie cause of only 2 planets in sag being ours, would not have taken long before some noob pulled all the troops off those 2 and we lost them also and no getting troops from lac takes too long to actualy win a rush war but also thnx for agreeing with me on any 1 player not being able to cap a planet
Az you know as well as any other seasoned player the chances of finding and killing a kluth tranny when being flown by some1 thats taken cloak rushing to a artform before he drops his troops is almost imposable, not saying it has not been done just the way the cloak is now like you said he very hard
and 1 other thing this battle I spoke of had been going on for 2 hours and every1 that had troops by this point did drop them
ok done not gonna bother to come back in here so plz what ever mods have the power lock it up and toss it away cause this is going nowhere fast
pokes every1 with a sharp stick
the Evil 1
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-25 23:33
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On 2010-03-25 23:09, ZooKeep wrote:
1st off kenny naboo if your not gonna read the 1st post and on before flamming just dont postl , also just because you can do something in a game does not mean your supposed to or it was ment to be by the devs
suur yes there were plenty of players on some even better then good old spartan and we all agreed to not tranny rush war with coombie cause of only 2 planets in sag being ours, would not have taken long before some noob pulled all the troops off those 2 and we lost them also and no getting troops from lac takes too long to actualy win a rush war but also thnx for agreeing with me on any 1 player not being able to cap a planet
Az you know as well as any other seasoned player the chances of finding and killing a kluth tranny when being flown by some1 thats taken cloak rushing to a artform before he drops his troops is almost imposable, not saying it has not been done just the way the cloak is now like you said he very hard
and 1 other thing this battle I spoke of had been going on for 2 hours and every1 that had troops by this point did drop them
ok done not gonna bother to come back in here so plz what ever mods have the power lock it up and toss it away cause this is going nowhere fast
pokes every1 with a sharp stick
the Evil 1
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Please, I wasn't even flaming you, FFS. But not to get dragged into an argument over impertinent issues such as that.....
.... I find it interesting that you brought up these points.
"just because you can do something in a game does not mean your supposed to or it was ment to be by the devs"
- Please define those "somethings".
Kluths are not supposed to cloak when near planets?
Kluth trannies can't decloak next to a planet and then drop inf?
Or dreads aren't supposed to tow around plats to be used as decoys?
What?
"yes there were plenty of players on some even better then good old spartan and we all agreed to not tranny rush war with coombie cause of only 2 planets in sag being ours, would not have taken long before some noob pulled all the troops off those 2 and we lost them also and no getting troops from lac takes too long to actualy win a rush war but also thnx for agreeing with me on any 1 player not being able to cap a planet"
So you made an agreement within that group... no tranny rushing.
And someone who wasn't in that group, or in cahoots with your treaty decides to pull it off.
And so?
I mean, I've seen a scenario where Kluths might make a temp truce with some ICCs and then go hit Uggies together, but then another Kluth player logs in and starts shooting ICCs.
He's not forced into the truce. It's up to him whether he wants in or out.
If for example, I did not partake in your agreement, then what? It's not as if it is actually stated anywhere officially that I have to abide by your rules all of a sudden. The game is free for all to play (within the current game mechanics).
The quick fix to tranny rushing is to prevent infantry from being dropped less than 300 to 500 gus from the planet. Bombs I believe, already have a minimum drop distance.
Will that then fix your gripe?
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-25 23:42 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-25 23:46
[quote]
On 2010-03-25 23:08, MrSparkle wrote:
Quote:
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The problem is like I said, that range will greatly affect it's effectiveness based on the planet's size. For larger planets, at 500gu away the transport will be practically at close-jump drop range already. For small planets like Lesser Boonie, 500gu away is pretty far.
It's definitely not the ideal solution.
I would say the biggest problem with tranny rushing now is the fact that you can instantly spawn at any sy and quickly grab 10 more infantry, then quickly spawn at the gate nearest your target planet. If you want to really speed things up, crash your tranny, spawn a new one at a sy, grab 10 inf, spawn at gate nearest to target planet, rush in and drop, crash, repeat with different sy.
IMO, the easy availability of infantry is the biggest problem.
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But if you make infantry hard to acquire (but easy to eliminate via bombing), you're gonna throw off the game mechanics again.
I dunno if the game has a system to determine where the surface of a planet is. I suppose it has because your ship actually blows up when it touches the planet's surface....
So I suppose there can be a system to determine how far from an enemy planet's (keyword: ENEMY planet) surface you can actually release a bomb or infantry.....
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-26 07:09
I disagree. I like the way the discussion is going. It shows there are problems inherant with the game, and problems with player tactics. Problems are thrown out, advice is being given. What's wrong with that?
I still want to point out that your Lac gate was a small hop away. A single tranny pilot could have countered the drops. Also, it is just smart tactics to always have inf. If I have to drop my inf, either on a rock or a ship, I make it a priority to grab more, asap.
The tranny in the right hands CAN be a good ship. I do agree. If you look at the Kluth tranny, it was always designed to be much better than their counterparts'. The original had the same bombload as a Clavate, and that was when levels of ship class didnt effect weapons the same way. The K'Luth transport has always been a main ship in my garage, and until I accidently wiped mine, I had one modded with adv defense and a trail. Yeah, I like them that much.
All of the tactics I listed already are the tactics that give me, A VETERAN TRANNY MAN, utter hell. I mean true utter hell. I have lost my ship before uncloaking completely because of the high sig and the antiship def. I have been blown to bits before I could react because of ping + QST.
As I said, I would NEVER rush a planet that was the scene of a good buffet - er, battle. But if I log in, like the other day, and find no Kluth on, and Eri all red, I am pulling my tranny and rushing razed troops to the nearest, least defended planet. I am not waiting for others to log in. If I have to, I will JUST LOG OFF, not just out. I have very limited time to play nowdays, and I am not going to spend it uselessly throwing away my clavate to heavy defense, sensors, and defenders while playing solo. I seldom fully rush a planet tho. I raze specific structures, in a pre-determined order, then come back in my Clavate. I prefer to use my bomber, but if I have to soften it up with troops, then yeah, that's called common sense. It's supposed to be commonly comprehended by the greater part of thinking people.
I still dont understand the lack of somebody just grabbing a scout for beacons or a scout with bombs. A bomb scout can flit around the planet rapidly, while the allies pull up endangered troops, and bomb the enemy off very quickly.
One other point I would like to make. I am curious. How many other people keep at least one tranny full of infantry in stock? How many of you have stations, and stock infantry on that before you log? Then the dreads can hold 4, 5, or 6.
See where I am going with this?
If I have a Colony (12), a tranny (10), a Nest (12), 2 Krills (2x6 for 12 total)....that's 46 infantry right there, and that's just one player and not all of my ships. How many did you have there?
This is where the player base as a whole falls short tactically. I know the Wolves fully understand this aspect and take advantage of it. Im curious how many others do? For the record, I have more than one tranny usually loaded up ready to go in my garage, just for those tranny countering moments.
Just a few more ideas to throw out there.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-03-26 07:15
We're thinking about a simple 500gu cloak exclusion zone around planets...
Thoughts (mainly from the K'luth)?
We've got plans to change planets A LOT after the F2P stuff goes through, so most likely this will be a 'two week' fix.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-03-26 07:15 ]
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-03-26 07:56
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On 2010-03-26 07:15, BackSlash wrote:
We're thinking about a simple 500gu cloak exclusion zone around planets...
Thoughts (mainly from the K'luth)?
We've got plans to change planets A LOT after the F2P stuff goes through, so most likely this will be a 'two week' fix.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-03-26 07:15 ]
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so take the main-advantage from luth-ships ?
what about taking 50% of the ugto-armor and disabling icc-shields within 500 gu ?
seriously:
trany-rushes can be done with every faction luth-tranys are just a little better at this
tansporter are quite fast and can dodge most of the projectiles / rocktets fired at them
if the transport goes in at full speed, it can drop troops direct on the planet, before getting destroyed or escaping, even at heavy defended planets
but one thing i can not understand:
if a whole fleet is defending a planet (i guess more than 2 stations) how can a single transporter (max 10 troops) capture a planet ? as far as i know, stations can carry up to 12 troops, there was probably at least an ugto-trany -> you could have up to 32 infantry
so why didnt anyone on ugto drop any troops to help defending ?
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