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Ideas on Factional Planetary Differences |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2010-03-27 05:02
Perhaps transports shd no longer exist. Perhaps replace them with assault dropships or something?
These armed Destroyer classed vessels can deploy fighter or bombed size landing craft at min 400gu from planets. These dropships should fly slower than fighters, like those Ewas units n be able to survive more enemy fire than pods.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-27 05:05 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-27 06:29
I still really dont see that big of an issue with the 500 gu no-cloak area, so long as it is structure linked.
For ICC: Ok. We make your shields repel bios. Then we make it so we cant raze anything. So ICC should have invincible planets. No, I dont think so. Bios go through shields, and they should. There should be no "I win" button and no "I win" structures. Thats just asking way too much.
Planet capping is not an easy thing to do nowdays. Thats one reason ya'll are seeing the tranny rushes more. We go too far, and we basically remove one aspect of the game. If the goal is for a planet to never fall, than the common sense approach is remove bombing all together (which I tend to advocate). We can tweak and embelish the planetary defenses, which is where the devs are heading - a move I strongly support. The idea of splitting the defenses up and giving them factional differences is a really smart move.
Try to play Devil's Advocate here. If you were defending as K'Luth, what would make sense to you? If you are attacking as ICC, what seems to be logical? Just some thoughts.
Sorry I didnt think to beta post this Sense. Good observation. My bad. Mods feel free to migrate it.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-27 06:40
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On 2010-03-26 15:06, Tommas [ USF HunnyBunny ] wrote:
And start talkin about planets atm is no point, the devs have said they are goin to redo the whole thing. So i think there is not much point before gettin some info on what theire planin to do
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Well, I figured, and others as well, that if we can get some good brainstorming going ahead of time, we may be able to help them develope something we are all more willing to pay for. Even if the fix isnt in for a year, there is no telling who will start doing what when, and they have to develope the direction first.
When players complain about not having any say, its because they avoid these kinds of threads. I know that player opinion does matter, from my former time as a mod. If we have good, constructive conversations here, the devs can, as has been shown, get some good ideas, and give good feedback to us. I think that is important - more so in this game than any I have ever played. We have a lot of strange people who have had a love/hate affair with DS for years. Like an old girlfriend/boyfriend we cant quite walk away from.
Or maybe it's more like a crack pipe. Just sayin'.
So throw in your opinions. You never know if what you think up may either be accepted, borrowed or combined and become a part of the game. It does happen. Its not just jousting with windmills.
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2010-03-27 09:24
Another Possibility:
1.Add a 250-500 GU minimum range for luth transports only. Keep regular Cloak.
2. In exchange make the dropped infantry be able to take more PD hits than infantry dropped by other faction transports. Perhaps 2 hits for standard infantry and 3 hits for heavy infantry would be reasonable.
3. Make up a stark trek explanation for as to why this is.
IE. K'Luth infantry drop pods are specialized organic creatures that grow and harden when they are exposed to extreme temperatures such as when traveling through a planet's atmosphere. In order for the carapace to be fully formed enough to allow K'Luth infantry to survive the impact, they must be built up over at least 250GU before hitting the surface. This type of drop pod has the fortunate side effect of also being able to absorb the heat from incoming Chemical Laser fire, making it highly resistant to this type of Point Defense.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-27 09:32
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On 2010-03-26 21:48, Crow Starcommander*CO* wrote:
ICC planetary shields should stop everything, even INF. Ever wonder why we never like using them? Because there too easy to bypass and are just a useless building. If they stopped everything then they would be useful. Make it so that when the shield is down it stays down for a while (like a good 20 min or so).
Also when a planet is captured by the enemy that all faction specific tech is auto destroyed. This would represent that yes the planet was defeated but the last loyal subjects got rid of any specific stuff for that faction. This would help both the new Kltuh cloak idea for there buildings and the ICC shields never falling into enemy hands. This would also mean UGTO buildings would just SD since they all would have the higher HP. This would keep faction specific stuff...well specific.
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Don't like the shield idea, because planets are already really tough to bomb with anti-bomb defense bases (more on that below).
But I do agree that faction-specific buildings should disable upon capture. In the case of UGTO buildings having higher hit points, that can't be disabled but maybe they can revert to non-higher levels.
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On 2010-03-27 06:29, Azreal wrote:
Planet capping is not an easy thing to do nowdays. Thats one reason ya'll are seeing the tranny rushes more. We go too far, and we basically remove one aspect of the game. If the goal is for a planet to never fall, than the common sense approach is remove bombing all together (which I tend to advocate). We can tweak and embelish the planetary defenses, which is where the devs are heading - a move I strongly support. The idea of splitting the defenses up and giving them factional differences is a really smart move.
Try to play Devil's Advocate here. If you were defending as K'Luth, what would make sense to you? If you are attacking as ICC, what seems to be logical? Just some thoughts.
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Tell me about it. Last night 3 of us were attempting to bomb a planet, UGTO-controlled with no shield. We had ECM cover. We watched all our fighter's bombs hit their targets and explode, but zero damage was done.
It got to a point where I brought a transport full of RAZE infantry to take out some structures and hopefully disable some of the defenses, because apparently there's a desync issue where it looks like the bombs are hitting but are actually getting shot down (yes, apparently all 3 of us were desynced...later on a 4th was also desynced).
Razing structures btw brought to light a pretty significant bug: The planet was fully operational even after I destroyed 2 variance generators (along with an auto farm and sensor base) resulting in a -44 power deficit. Nothing was shut down due to power shortage. Some of us who play a lot in scenario might know that it's possible to build planets with massive power deficits that are 100% operational. This is a significant bug. I've seen planets with over -200 power shortage with fully operational level 3 defenses. I do not know how to duplicate it, but there is a way to build like that.
So not only is bombing itself buggy and unpredictable, but you can't even disable defenses properly. You can't tell if your bombs are being shot down or you're desynced or the planet is bugged.
I always play devil's advocate btw  It's just smart to point out all the possible problems with a suggestion.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-27 23:39
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On 2010-03-27 09:24, Chewy Squirrel {Yum!} wrote:
Another Possibility:
1.Add a 250-500 GU minimum range for luth transports only. Keep regular Cloak.
2. In exchange make the dropped infantry be able to take more PD hits than infantry dropped by other faction transports. Perhaps 2 hits for standard infantry and 3 hits for heavy infantry would be reasonable.
3. Make up a stark trek explanation for as to why this is.
IE. K'Luth infantry drop pods are specialized organic creatures that grow and harden when they are exposed to extreme temperatures such as when traveling through a planet's atmosphere. In order for the carapace to be fully formed enough to allow K'Luth infantry to survive the impact, they must be built up over at least 250GU before hitting the surface. This type of drop pod has the fortunate side effect of also being able to absorb the heat from incoming Chemical Laser fire, making it highly resistant to this type of Point Defense.
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But then the other factions will still be able to tranny rush.
Solution is to make all inf release 250GU minimum distance, and all transport pods a wee bit more resistance to PD fire.
This way, it doesn't matter if a K'Luth transport is able to cloak all the way till his tailpipe is scraping the planet. He still can't dump infantry.
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
| Posted: 2010-03-28 03:10
The minimum infantry release distance is a good idea whether 250 - 500 gu...
The idea that I read and am liking more and more if such a measure is required is the instant energy drainage from any enemy ship within xxx gu from planet such as the Crystal Entity achieves.
Preferably just to enemy ships.
Regardless Backslash get's his 1st nerf of the K'luth that he desires, ICC lose their shields and the UGTO Turtles lose their bite. Would make all planets somewhat easier to defend.
No more cloaked tranny rushes or UGTO using overwhelming Station Turtle rushes ... or ICC .... well I guess they can still sneak around after we all logged 
Still planetary structure based. Requires only one structure to be introduced to the game to cope with a majority of the so called 'issues'.
Far from a perfect solution but I like the concept.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-28 10:13
Would a minimum infantry release distance apply vs ships? Because good luck ever capping a ship again if so.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-03-28 12:38
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On 2010-03-28 03:10, Sauur wrote:
Regardless Backslash get's his 1st nerf of the K'luth that he desires, ICC lose their shields and the UGTO Turtles lose their bite. Would make all planets somewhat easier to defend.
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I wouldn't be insulting the dev that argued for buffing the K'luth from what they were in 1.483 (including more armour) .
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-28 14:38
Quote:
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On 2010-03-28 10:13, MrSparkle wrote:
Would a minimum infantry release distance apply vs ships? Because good luck ever capping a ship again if so.
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Probably applies to only planets.
The only way you can cap ships is to move over/under them and release inf. Ships move way too fast for pods to keep up. The PDs will kill 'em real fast.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-03-28 15:22
Quote:
| On 2010-03-28 14:38, Kenny_Naboo wrote:Quote:
| On 2010-03-28 10:13, MrSparkle wrote:
Would a minimum infantry release distance apply vs ships? Because good luck ever capping a ship again if so. |
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Probably applies to only planets.
The only way you can cap ships is to move over/under them and release inf. Ships move way too fast for pods to keep up. The PDs will kill 'em real fast. |
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Indeed Pods only go 10gu/s
But yes if we included a minimal distance then it would count for unloading to other ships as well.
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ADmiraLMaXimus (Bringer of Doom)
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'
Joined: March 09, 2002
Posts: 363
From: Earth
| Posted: 2010-03-28 16:20
here is a question regarding faction specific structures on planets:
what happens when, lets say UGTO cap a kluth planet and manage to have cloaked structures and can build high HP structures.....
or ICC cap kluth planet and get cloaked structures and shields....
or kluth cap a ugto and ICC mixed structure planet and add cloaking structure.....
when this happens any advantage you had before is gone for any faction depending on the situation....
on the topic of losing cloak at 500gu from planet:
if cloak is useless at close range to enenmy planet, maybe ICC shield function should diminish as well at close range to enemy planet....
and UGTO Systems should suffer at close range as well.... making it harder for any faction to stay near an enemy planet.... not just one faction over an other
without adding any other features to planet structures they will be harder to cap and will requires a fleet to do so on a majority of occasions
just a thought
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-03-28 16:40
I think the idea is that either faction-specific buildings are destroyed upon capture, or they're permanently disabled, so that a kluth cloak building cant be used by humans, UGTO increased armor buildings lose their increased armor, ICC shields go offline, etc.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-28 17:08
1- Ugto planets hub can be used as forts by ugto inf and make enemy invansion to last longer.
2- Icc planetary shield can be larger at diameters and can give extra protection to icc fleet which hugs to the planet but can be damaged by enemy weaponry.
3- Cloak ability for kluth planets may help kluth to camp their planet by using ecm without worrying to give an advantage to enemy fighters/bombers because of using Ecm.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-03-28 18:14
How about, the faction specific structures HAVE to be destroyed BEFORE you can cap it. Maybe the advantage of the Kluth could be a planetary invasion MUST happen (because they are underground, or cloaked, or whatever), whereas with the humans you could potentialy bomb them off (because they can be seen).
This would make it so a "clean" planet exists, and there would be no need to worry about scrapping the structures. In fact, this way, you get pres taking them out and pres replacing them.
This could also extend the amount of time it takes to capture a planet, giving the defenders time to defend their holding. It should be damn tough to take a WELL DEVELOPED planet.
I wonder if this would in some way dovetail with F's idea for DS Assault....
I am also bringing up that this would be another reason for faction specific, specialized infantry.
UGTO could have the best shock troops, as they would theoreticlly be the best equiped.
ICC could have the best sabotuers, as they are more like the fighting rebel army, decently equiped, but not as well as UGTO.
K'Luth. Hmmm. Maybe the happy medium?
Id still also like to see spies, that if dropped can feed some information back about the enemy planet.
Commandos for specificly razing military structures
Propagandists that could begin to stir up disent and decrease moral. Only instead of going rebel, it goes to the antagonizing faction (and the attacking fleet). A friendly spy could discover the propagandist troops and troops could nuetralize them.
See what Im saying?
Maybe add more depth to the whole planetary attack sequence that has nothing to do with cloud bombing and mirving and simple razing. Something more to rely on than defenses and sensors. It would also add another, deeper aspect to the game that it is needing.
I have another idea, based on ai use. Ill post it later. Ill let ya'll critic these fine sentences first.
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