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Suggestions: Balance of Power, etc. |
G.Adm. Kirk
Grand Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 91
From: Baton Rouge, LA
|  Posted: 2010-03-29 23:49
I was chatting with Azreal and we came up with what I think are some pretty good starting points for future alterations of factional power. Please note that these are just basic ideas and deal only with the balance of power between UGTO and K'Luth. We didn't have the ICC perspective to take into account.
1. The EAD needs a buff.
This started as me whining about the Krill, which are, in every sense of the word "elite." It quickly became apparent in our discussion that the Krill are not overpowered, but something else is wrong. Right now, the EAD is not very elite at all. It has no rear armor, not enough energy to take more than one or two enemies at a time (even conserving energy and such), and no sensor gadgets (which are vital when luth are afoot). We couldn't decide whether it should have more rear armor and an extra gen or rear weaponry and a sensor gadget. Since it already has massive energy problems, I would lean toward mixing those two suggestions and add a gen and a sensor or a gen and rear weaponry.
2. UGTO (and ICC) needs something that beats the cloak. (and/or the cloak needs to change).
There has been some talk on the forums recently of a planetary structure that would completely defeat the cloak, but the ships also need something, perhaps slightly less effective than the structure. Azreal had the idea of “depth-charge” style cloak detection (perhaps a rework of the beacon?) that I liked. It is significantly less obtuse than the current “spam the eccm button and try to click really fast!” method. Additionally, the smaller luth ships should be reverted to the old cloaking scheme of ecm vs. eccm. That would fix the tranny rush issue and make them generally less annoying. I know one of the devs said that cloak is a singly object now and it would be hard to change, but unless beacons become awesome again, it needs to happen.
3. General Game Revisions
We also made passing reference to the fact that many game practices have not changed over the years while the underlying game has changed a great deal. One thing that pops out at me is the use of /y. One Luth (who shall remain nameless) almost aggravated me through the yell system earlier. My request here is for /ignore’s to apply to in game yell and target chat. If that is impossible, I suppose I can deal with annoyances, but it would be great. Additionally, Nim * needs to come back. Enough said on that.
Finally, what happened to the safe zones around home planets? It was great to have to cap Sol back the other day, (reminiscent of the old wake up to SA nuking Venus routine) but we always had Earth to start from.
Thanks for reading. As a side note, thanks to all of the devs for everything that you guys have done over the years to make this game great. I have subbed on and off since 2005 and have never had a bad experience with a staff member or Darkspace in general. There has been a glitch here and there, but again, you are all to be commended for the excellent jobs that you continue to do. If any of you ever visit Baton Rouge, hit me up and I’ll take you to lunch.
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RonZo *FC*
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 178
| Posted: 2010-03-30 01:43
agree on most... cloacking and pinging is just annoying... but thats the main weapon of luth.. considerer weak armor...
EAD MUST BE FIXED NOW!
Greets!
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Chief Marshal RonZo
[CEC] Fleet Commander
Since 2004
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:06
I like the Depth charge idea. Will make E&E (escape & evasion) more challenging for K'Luth.
How about a cloak disruptor torpedo?
U fire the thing, and it travels for a max distance of 500 GUs, then detonate (or you can Shift + detonate it or it impacts a vessel).
The effect would be to instantly disrupt or drop the cloak of any K'luth vessel in a radius of about 200 GUs, and disable the cloaking device for perhaps 10 seconds.
For visual aesthetics, you could make it such that electrical arcs surround the vessel (ala Predator cloak hits water) as it decloaks into view.
Limit the ammo to a few rounds, and a long reload period to prevent spamming. Also make it only replaceable on ships already torpedo equipped, so not everybody will suddenly equip one.
It's not gonna be easy to use, granted, but then it will be interesting to see how some talented players will employ it to good effect. 
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-30 02:10 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:09
interesting observations. Also more interesting since those ideas(?) come from Az himself.
I thought Az did teach you guys how to trap and kill cloaked kluths when he used to play on ugto. Hope you didnt miss that class.
But right , EAD musts be fixed now. Starting from its front armor and replacing it to back side. Now u are fixed.
An anti cloak device idea isnt any supportable by kluth. You guys can have your own fleet chat but hey we arent AI. We also have fleet/faction chat. All i hear is no no no no to special anti cloak device. If nobody comes here to make a statement about it because we decided to not make this a flame war. Simple within the reasons we want to wait and see .
any of above isnt realy urgent for darkspace.
If something needs to be buffed it is icc itself.
anyway
have a nice day
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:11
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:06, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I like the Depth charge idea. Will make E&E (escape & evasion) more challenging for K'Luth.
How about a cloak disruptor torpedo?
U fire the thing, and it travels for a max distance of 500 GUs, then detonate (or you can Shift + detonate it or it impacts a vessel).
The effect would be to instantly disrupt or drop the cloak of any K'luth vessel in a radius of about 200 GUs, and disable the cloaking device for perhaps 10 seconds.
For visual aesthetics, you could make it such that electrical arcs surround the vessel (ala Predator cloak hits water) as it decloaks into view.
Limit the ammo to a few rounds. It's not gonna be easy to use, granted, but then it will be interesting to see how some talented players will put it to good effect.
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Hope u are being sarcastic!
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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G.Adm. Kirk
Grand Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 91
From: Baton Rouge, LA
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:14
I didn't ever request a "win key" for UGTO. The cloak should just be *possible* to beat. Right now, it is found only through a glitch in the eccm code that turned into a feature.
Oh, and I should make it clear. Not all of those ideas were created or endorsed by Az. The three major points were spawned out of a half an hour or so of convos, but I took some liberty explaining. I guess I should have said that these views are not necesarily endorsed by all parties. (Though most are).
[ This Message was edited by: F.Adm. Kirk on 2010-03-30 02:16 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:18
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:11, Pakhos wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:06, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I like the Depth charge idea. Will make E&E (escape & evasion) more challenging for K'Luth.
How about a cloak disruptor torpedo?
U fire the thing, and it travels for a max distance of 500 GUs, then detonate (or you can Shift + detonate it or it impacts a vessel).
The effect would be to instantly disrupt or drop the cloak of any K'luth vessel in a radius of about 200 GUs, and disable the cloaking device for perhaps 10 seconds.
For visual aesthetics, you could make it such that electrical arcs surround the vessel (ala Predator cloak hits water) as it decloaks into view.
Limit the ammo to a few rounds. It's not gonna be easy to use, granted, but then it will be interesting to see how some talented players will put it to good effect.
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Hope u are being sarcastic!
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Well, yes and no. 
Only a few of them, especially the vets, are good at hunting bugs.
LOL. C'mon Pak! Where's your sense of adventure? 
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Caleb
Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: July 04, 2007
Posts: 5
From: Caleb
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:20
I agree mostly here while cloak cannot be taken completely off 1 sec eccm ping is not enough mabi make it if they cloak their existing projectiles are destroyed and have a cool down on everything after uncloak.
And yes something must be done about the EAD it is not really elite at all.
I wouldn't like k'luth cloak to be nerfed to hell but something must be done.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:21
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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Caleb
Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: July 04, 2007
Posts: 5
From: Caleb
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:25
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:21, The Fridge wrote:
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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once again this would be overpowering with say 5 people using it thats 1 ping average 4-9 secs we need to find something that is agreeable to everyone not including biased peole
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:28
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:21, The Fridge wrote:
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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Just slight modifications to ECCM can achieve this. Just revealing cloaked vessels for that short instance or split second.
But there's gotta be penalties.... like it using more energy when activated.
And, as Caleb said... if everyone had one, then it'd be a spam. Perhaps limit this equipment to only a few specialized vessels.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-30 02:29 ]
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:33
We've discussed having cloak not work within 250 or 500 gu of a planet to stop tranny rushes... And to keep Kluth from planet hugging and getting them back out in deep space like they were intended.
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G.Adm. Kirk
Grand Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 91
From: Baton Rouge, LA
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:33
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:28, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:21, The Fridge wrote:
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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Just slight modifications to ECCM can achieve this. Just revealing cloaked vessels for that short instance or split second.
But there's gotta be penalties.... like it using more energy when activated.
And, as Caleb said... if everyone had one, then it'd be a spam. Perhaps limit this equipment to only a few specialized vessels.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-30 02:29 ]
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I generally agree with that. Perhaps something like a Tachyon Detection Grid? (See Star Trek; but it basically makes a net that detects cloaked vessels that pass between ships participating in the net.) That might be difficult to implement.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-03-30 02:55
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:21, The Fridge wrote:
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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On a planet, only 1 build-able per planet.
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-03-30 03:06
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:33, F.Adm. Kirk wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:28, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-03-30 02:21, The Fridge wrote:
Sonar type device for detecting Kluth, pings every 20-40 secs automatically within an area of 500 -700 gu.
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Just slight modifications to ECCM can achieve this. Just revealing cloaked vessels for that short instance or split second.
But there's gotta be penalties.... like it using more energy when activated.
And, as Caleb said... if everyone had one, then it'd be a spam. Perhaps limit this equipment to only a few specialized vessels.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-30 02:29 ]
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I generally agree with that. Perhaps something like a Tachyon Detection Grid? (See Star Trek; but it basically makes a net that detects cloaked vessels that pass between ships participating in the net.) That might be difficult to implement.
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I suggested something like that a long time ago but no one payed any heed to it. Basically take the Interdictor ship and change out the dico for an anti cloak device. 1k gu anti cloak field or 750gu but long range and basically the ship just painted a giant "Kill me now" on it when it turned it on. As I said back then and I will say it again. In a game with a cloak you need something that counters it or it becomes overpowered. Every game that has had a cloak device in it had something that would counter it or make it less effective.
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