| Author |
Ramming and/or Collision detection |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2010-03-31 23:32
Now, we seen ships pass over and under each other. The smaller ship always goes under.
I wonder if anyone here has ever thought of having a toggle-able collision or ramming option?
True to life Kamikaze. Will pick up kami points too for the crasher (dude who does the ramming) when he rams the crashee....
How would it work? Well, detection would work only for the front arc of the ship of the person that toggled it on. Meaning to say that if I toggled collision on, and someone ran into my rear or sides, there would be no collision (unless he toggled it). This is to prevent unintentional ramming or sideswiping.
Only if your front arc hits the other guy (on any arc) would a collision be detected. And it would only be detected on opposing factions. So you don't accidentally ram your pals or teammates.
How damage is dished out? Well, the old fashion way. Factors like relative velocity, the armor/shield/hull condition of both crash-test-dummies, and of course the weight and class of both ships would be factored in.
Eg: 100% armor & hull dessie crashes into 5% hull Dread..... most prob both will be destroyed, or the dess will come out with 5% hull while the dread takes the dirt nap.
Eg: Two 100% dreads hit each other at a scraping angle. Most probably lotsa armor and hull damage... and they will sorta scrape off each other on a new course. But as in real life, most collisions aren't survivable. 
As for warning... well, we already have a klaxon when yer about to hit a planet "Collision Alert! Collision Alert!". Applies to both ships within 50gu range. This will alert the crashee that he's about to be ass-ended by the crasher. LOL.
What do you guys think? 
I could almost hear that Klingon weenie, Worf mouth off now, "Prepare for ramming speed!" .... whatever the heck ramming speed is. LOL
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-03-31 23:36 ]
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Wolfex
1st Rear Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 31, 2009
Posts: 24
| Posted: 2010-04-01 01:28
This is an Interesting Suggestions, although you have to take into consideration that new players or players who cant get Legitimate kills. Will proceed to do nothing but ramming, you'll be in bombing a planet. and rather try to shoot you, a K'luth player might Cloak..... get close and gain lots of speed, then De-Cloak and Ram you just to score a kill
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-01 01:43
Well, seeing as how ramming will probably end up in both parties being destroyed (the more damaged, or smaller party, being the one more likely), I foresee that it will probably be no different from an SD kami kill.
I doubt larger ships would ram smaller ships as it would net them very little prestige against the loss or damage of their ship. If they'd survive, they probably would be in very poor shape. To protect against this, if a ship survives a ramming, he should suffer massive damage to his subsystems.... especially most of his primary weapons and the jumpdrive.  This will prevent hit and run incidents.
And neither would smaller ship ram larger ships, as they would probably pwn themselves more than they would the enemy.
As an alternative to this ram/collision mode button.... perhaps DS should have multiple 2D plane levels... or "floors". We're all playing on a single plane right now. If we can have say.... 5 planes, it would be nice wouldn't it?
A smaller ship could move up and down the different planes. Cruisers and below take up one plane.
Dreads take up 2 planes due to their size and can only move up and down between 3 levels.
Stations take up all 5 levels and can't change their "altitude" for nuts.
Collision detection takes place when 2 enemy ships (again, friendly ships will simply adjust their "levels" automatically and pass over/under each other) on the same level contact each other.
Possibilities.... possibilities......
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-04-01 02:45
Quote:
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On 2010-04-01 01:43, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
I doubt larger ships would ram smaller ships as it would net them very little prestige against the loss or damage of their ship. If they'd survive, they probably would be in very poor shape. To protect against this, if a ship survives a ramming, he should suffer massive damage to his subsystems.... especially most of his primary weapons and the jumpdrive. This will prevent hit and run incidents.
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i think bigger ships would (or at least should) go right through smaller ships
dreds should take little to almost no damage, when they ram a scout or a frig
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-01 02:49
Quote:
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On 2010-04-01 02:45, NoBoDx wrote:
i think bigger ships would (or at least should) go right through smaller ships
dreds should take little to almost no damage, when they ram a scout or a frig
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Oh really?
If an aircraft carrier like the USS Nimitz rams a OHP class frigate at full speed ahead of 33 knots, how little damage do you expect the carrier to take.
Or replace that carrier with the USS Iowa.
Hmmm?
These are spacecraft. Realistically, expect hull breaches, explosive decompression. If a frigate hits a dread's side at 30 GU/s, I'd expect to see the dread split into two from the kinetic energy. OK.... that's perhaps too much.... the dread prob won't die, but it should take some moderate damage. After all, that frig might have a full complement of missiles or bombs aboard.
Maybe we could calculate the damage as 1.5 x SD damage of the dying vessel on the surviving vessel to account for kinetic energy damage, and the resultant explosion of one or both affected ships will do the normal damage to surrounding ships.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-01 02:59 ]
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Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
| Posted: 2010-04-01 04:01
This is a game, not real life. As such, gameplay reasons a corvette should not and will not do signifigant damage to a dreadnought just from smacking into it, nor will a frigate. a cruiser MAYBE. because the cruisers are 1/3-4 the size of a dread. and only one class down.
Picture this, there is very little cost to lose a corvette, if not nill. if you do 30% hull damage to a dreadnoght, you just gained back twice what you lost by hitting it. not only that, but 2 or 3 corvettes kamikazi rushing a dread can cripple it in seconds, which is a big nono.
picture 10 corvettes working together, all respawning and jumping into ships, as your just flying at high speed when jumping right? that dread fleet gains practically nothing from the corvettes, where as they gain metric craptons of pres just by simply ramming.
frigates lose more? they gain more by doing more damage.
Good idea, would work if the ships just "thunk" and stall eachother out while doing a % total based on mass. a dn slamming into a scout should make the scout bounce off, lose speed and be stuck at 30% hull or less, where as the dreadnought bearly even notices it. (dreads are just over a km long, remember)
The plains idea, i endorse, but is useless currently
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-01 04:24
Quote:
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On 2010-04-01 04:01, Rhiawhyn Zerinth wrote:
This is a game, not real life. As such, gameplay reasons a corvette should not and will not do signifigant damage to a dreadnought just from smacking into it, nor will a frigate. a cruiser MAYBE. because the cruisers are 1/3-4 the size of a dread. and only one class down.
Picture this, there is very little cost to lose a corvette, if not nill. if you do 30% hull damage to a dreadnoght, you just gained back twice what you lost by hitting it. not only that, but 2 or 3 corvettes kamikazi rushing a dread can cripple it in seconds, which is a big nono.
picture 10 corvettes working together, all respawning and jumping into ships, as your just flying at high speed when jumping right? that dread fleet gains practically nothing from the corvettes, where as they gain metric craptons of pres just by simply ramming.
frigates lose more? they gain more by doing more damage.
Good idea, would work if the ships just "thunk" and stall eachother out while doing a % total based on mass. a dn slamming into a scout should make the scout bounce off, lose speed and be stuck at 30% hull or less, where as the dreadnought bearly even notices it. (dreads are just over a km long, remember)
The plains idea, i endorse, but is useless currently
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Good point. Exploit prevention.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-04-01 04:44
Ship to ship collision will add new depth to the game, but it isnt practical at all. Either weak collision damage or no collision system, because this system requires hull classes, armor types, speeds and angles. A lot of strain on computers, that is.
As far as multi-plane flight systems are.....too...tough...just imagine a missile destroyer trying to nail down a bomber destroyer at medium ranges. If the bomber changes planes too fast, the missiles, can all projectiles in particular, will never hit. So, either no multi-plane or better missile tracking or something that balances it.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-04-01 05:00
Actually it wouldn't add a new depth, it would add an old depth.
We simplified game play on a 2d movement access. Though in space you can move in 3 axis's. You would have more options to avoid a collision unlike in a 2 axis plane.
Back in early beta we did have it so you could colide and a lot of people were getting damaged and losing prestige to friend fire for crashing into their friends during fleet actions.
After much deliberation we decided to remove collisions and there was much rejoicing. Even Nimby was allowed out of the basement for a few minutes...
So no, collisions with other ships wont be returning.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-04-01 05:46
Quote:
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On 2010-04-01 05:00, Tael wrote:
Actually it wouldn't add a new depth, it would add an old depth.
We simplified game play on a 2d movement access. Though in space you can move in 3 axis's. You would have more options to avoid a collision unlike in a 2 axis plane.
Back in early beta we did have it so you could colide and a lot of people were getting damaged and losing prestige to friend fire for crashing into their friends during fleet actions.
After much deliberation we decided to remove collisions and there was much rejoicing. Even Nimby was allowed out of the basement for a few minutes...
So no, collisions with other ships wont be returning.
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Oh well, t'was a nice thought anyway. LOL.
But I mentioned, no friendly collisions. Only enemy collisions.
How about adding the Ramming mode option then?
At least if I want to make a new orifice on that enemy dread, I can have an option.....
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-01 05:47 ]
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Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
| Posted: 2010-04-01 05:53
Sadly the chances of that are very very low, mainly because it is a useless (but fun) feature that would take time away from the devs for more important things.
good on paper, not in practice, it would cause way to much grief and whining.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2010-04-01 06:11
Actually its as simple as disabling a simple flag in the code, we toyed with turning it back on a couple of years ago, it lasted about, I dunno, 15 minutes before the hot fix to turn it the collisions back off was pushed out.
Even "Ramming" mode isnt fair to all sides as again, 3d tactics in a 2d movement world. Its a lot harder to ram something moving in 3 axis's. The system now allows us to work around the 2d limitations.
And the majority of people would hate it to be honest. So no.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-04-01 07:48
I'd want to crash in with guns blazing, smashing into that Station with the fury of Albana Alzakirk.
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Frisky Dingo
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2010-04-01 08:26
Quote:
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On 2010-04-01 06:11, Tael wrote:
And the majority of people would hate it to be honest. So no.
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Wolfex
1st Rear Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 31, 2009
Posts: 24
| Posted: 2010-04-01 11:54
Amen, Thank you Tael
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