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Forum Index » » English (General) » » Why nerf ions?
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 Author Why nerf ions?
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
Posted: 2010-04-04 16:01   
MY icc mates are right . For kluth there is no such a big difference between 990-825. In fact it is all better since we can fire all our psi cannos with ganglia without being shot by ICC nor UGTO core weapons. Only problem for kluth might be more signal as we are more close to enemy. But it isnt imposible to deal with it .


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Sputter{TB}
Grand Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United


Joined: September 22, 2004
Posts: 109
From: Pennsylvania
Posted: 2010-04-04 16:06   
yea actually by nerfing ions you are giving the ugto and kluth a pretty big advantage now, before we could ion ugto planet huggers with our ADs to move them away, and now how exactly can you fight off a group of kluth ganglias at long range because icc doesn't have the numbers atm. So basically kluth vs icc, kluth have better long range effectiveness because MD won't ever hit a kluth 2k away
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
Posted: 2010-04-04 16:29   
just to throw it out there: isnt the whole point to having a ranged, defensive faction the fact that the enemy has to close the distance before they can attack us? what good are our ranged weapons if theyre within the range of the enemies ranged weapons?

i dont think its unfair for the ICC to be able to sit at a fair distance to fight - we arent designed to dismantle a planets defense fleet, thats kluth and UGTO. we defend planets instead, and try to sneakily take them or lure enemy defenders into the open, i.e. by attacking them from a range where their planets arent part of the equation.

i think theres potential for a good argument to reduce ICC weapons range, sure, but it has to balance against the fact that we just cant sustain a direct assault on a defending force.
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UnknownWarrior
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 724
From: North Carolina, USA
Posted: 2010-04-04 16:43   
Honestly, and this is my honest to god opinion on this. The only thing that needed to be changed around, and EVERY dev afaik agree'd on this was the Krill's max energy supply needed to be dropped down a little to fit in wth the hit and run style game play they are ment for.

And now you all the sudden turn right around and nerf something that the ICC uses for long range since they are a "Ranged" faction. Honestly guys, your changing stuff around that doesnt need to be changed. The game was running fine and seemed perfectly balanced aside from the issue stated above. ICC was fine, UGTO was fine. And now all the sudden your telling me that in order to make my AD effective now is to get in the ENEMIES RANGE just to attack?

Guys, get your heads in the game here, this is by far the WORST idea you could have come up with.

-End rant
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Starcommander
Marshal

Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
Posted: 2010-04-04 17:30   
IC are 1920gu range
QST 1600gu
SI 1000gu

Yes the IC are kings of the range world and thats what makes ICC, ICC! UGTO CAN counter IC range with the vary SAME MISSILES ICC HAS. Not to mention fighters that hurt your instead of slap you around.

The shield regen needing nerfed? Really? I mean really? After the conversations on how ICC needed some way to get back into the fight sooner. Yet we need a nerf on regen somehow? Oooooh my head hurts.


Doing these nerfs to ICC will just kill the already desert waist land ICC is. During the week its hard to find players and weekends its better but still pretty low. Adding these nerfs will kill ICC altogether. Even we as a fleet have decided will leave ICC as there will be no point in playing them anymore. It pains me to do that even as I am a hardcore ICC player but this.....this is too much.

So I will be giving my congratulations to the dev team on a successful kill. Good work and keep it up, who knows we might become just a 1 faction game.



Welcome to Dead Space





[ This Message was edited by: Fast Starcommander*CO* on 2010-04-04 17:39 ]
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral

Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
Posted: 2010-04-04 17:35   
Quote:

On 2010-04-04 13:35, BackSlash wrote:


If you do the percentage differences, the differences are still the same (30%). So infact, you lose nothing. It just brings the fight closer to the 1k gu range we prefer fights to happen at (data!).




so does this mean that you will nerf fighters from the unlimited range they have now down to something that requires tacticks beyond a scanner?
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Icarus II
Grand Admiral

Joined: December 23, 2008
Posts: 55
From: florida
Posted: 2010-04-04 19:59   
"The shield regen needing nerfed? Really? I mean really? After the conversations on how ICC needed some way to get back into the fight sooner. Yet we need a nerf on regen somehow? Oooooh my head hurts.


Doing these nerfs to ICC will just kill the already desert waist land ICC is. During the week its hard to find players and weekends its better but still pretty low. Adding these nerfs will kill ICC altogether. Even we as a fleet have decided will leave ICC as there will be no point in playing them anymore. It pains me to do that even as I am a hardcore ICC player but this.....this is too much. "

+1


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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral

Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
Posted: 2010-04-04 20:39   
The IC nerf is total sunshine and lollipops. [Don't say that in here. - Sard]

WHAT EXACTLY were the devs thinking, dropping 700!!!!! GU off the range of the IC, yet only 200 off QST's and SI's! this is OUTRAGEOUS!

the devs are going 100% against the code for icc witch they set themselves!

yes, UGTO might not be able to stop it, but they have ablative! they can jump! ICC have no special thing against it!

IC's are now falling out of favour to RAILGUNS! look at the madness the devs have caused! its unbelieveable!

Quote:



IC are 1920gu range
QST 1600gu
SI 1000gu

Yes the IC are kings of the range world and thats what makes ICC, ICC! UGTO CAN counter IC range with the vary SAME MISSILES ICC HAS. Not to mention fighters that hurt your instead of slap you around.

The shield regen needing nerfed? Really? I mean really? After the conversations on how ICC needed some way to get back into the fight sooner. Yet we need a nerf on regen somehow? Oooooh my head hurts.


Doing these nerfs to ICC will just kill the already desert waist land ICC is. During the week its hard to find players and weekends its better but still pretty low. Adding these nerfs will kill ICC altogether. Even we as a fleet have decided will leave ICC as there will be no point in playing them anymore. It pains me to do that even as I am a hardcore ICC player but this.....this is too much.

So I will be giving my congratulations to the dev team on a successful kill. Good work and keep it up, who knows we might become just a 1 faction game.



Welcome to Dead Space




agreed

[ This Message was edited by: Iwanni *Ojama Blue* on 2010-04-04 20:41 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Iwanni *Ojama Blue* on 2010-04-04 20:42 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2010-04-05 00:37 ]
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
Posted: 2010-04-04 21:08   
Quote:

On 2010-04-04 17:30, Fast Starcommander*CO* wrote:



Welcome to Dead Space









nuff said
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-04-04 22:26   
Why does it look like changes made always seem to end up favoring UGTO? Yes, the other factions get piecemeal improvements here and there, but on the overall, it just seems to give an already overpopulated faction more advantage, and also a reason for more players to flock on there.

ICC is dead with this latest change.




[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-05 04:15 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-04-04 22:36   
Quote:

On 2010-04-04 12:37, BackSlash wrote:
Whether you want to admit it or not, IC's were fired at distances no-one else could do anything about. Whilst K'luth could cloak to avoid the damage, UGTO could do little but sit there and take it like champs.




Bull.

UGTO, almost always having superior numbers and armor, would simply point jump the ICCs with their stations and dreads and drive them off.

ICC is supposed to outrange everyone else by a fair margin. Isn't that the point of their concept in the first place??


I call to your attention, the manual item:

Quote:


5.2.2 Choosing a Faction
Almost there! Upon pressing play on the Opening Screen, you have now joined the action...sort of. There are still a few specifics remaining. Your first task will be to select a faction, unless you are playing on a clan server and have a clan affiliation. Before you make this choice, you might want to consider the basic traits of each faction.

Refer to section 11 The Factions for a more detailed overview of each faction, as well as a list of their ships and the requirements for those ships.

5.2.2.1 The United Galactic Trade Organization
Called "Uggies" or "Uglies" by their enemies, the UGTO fields some of the sleekest and most well-rounded ships. Energy weapons, Proton technology and thick armor result in ships with good protection, and efficient use of their energy pool for weapons.

Pros: Good energy use, Flux and EMP weapons to disable ship systems, large fighter carriers, Armor can be repaired by depots
Cons: Armor by itself has lower all-around protection than shields and repairs itself slower.

5.2.2.2 The Interstellar Cultural Confederation
The ICC, "Ickies" to their foes, are masters of energy shields and Fusion technology. Slate-grey, angular ships blend in with the blackness of space, and their weapons have the longest range of all the factions. As such, ICC ships excel at holding defensive positions and pounding enemies at range.

Pros: Long range weapons, shields make ICC ships a tough nut to crack, fast firing pulse lasers easily defeat incoming missiles and fighters.
Cons: Recharging shields drain large amounts of energy, light armor leaves ships relatively defenseless without energy to power shields.

5.2.2.3 The K'luth
The organic ships of the alien K'Luth and the insectoid naming conventions used by humans to describe their ships have earned the K'Luth the nickname "Lobsters" or "Bugs". Psionic and Antimatter technology give the K'Luth significant damage-dealing capacity at short range, and their Antimatter engines and jump drives make them the fastest ships in known space. K'Luth armor is much lighter than that found on comparable ICC ships, but a cloaking device compensates for this deficiency, making K'Luth masters of hit and run tactics.

Pros: Most powerful weapons in terms of raw damage, fast ships, and the ability to move invisibly.
Cons: Shorter weapon range than human weapons, weak armor, weapons and cloaking device have high energy drain.




Is the manual still accurate after all your changes over time?

Seems that UGTO armor holds up better against incoming fire than ICC shields. And they get repped a lot faster too. And eventually K'luth cloak won't be so effective either.

It's not really what it says anymore ain't it?



Quote:

11.2 The Interstellar Cultural Confederation
The ICC are the most defensive of the three factions. They excel in stand-off missile combat, and are able to quickly rotate shield power to prevent focused attacks from penetrating to the ship's hull. While shields drain power, they provide a fast recharge, and the energy can be quickly transferred to any shield quadrants should the need arise. ICC have adapted their shielding technology to a planetary scale, multiple shield generators can be placed to defend a single planet, each adding to the total shield strength and recharge rate.






Fast recharge? Surely you jest. It can't be repped, and armor repairs faster when supped.


[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-04-04 23:07 ]
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Fatal Afro Man *NCO*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron


Joined: September 09, 2006
Posts: 201
Posted: 2010-04-04 22:42   
We should probably take ICC shields off the ships too, they are OP anyways.
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Anathemia
1st Rear Admiral

Joined: June 23, 2009
Posts: 38
Posted: 2010-04-04 23:08   
Bah, something like this was bound to happen sooner or later.

Shield regen. We can't 'repair' and just come back. We have to wait. All the enemy has to do is knock through shields and the best we can do is come in with basically half protection (armor only) while both UGTO and K'luth just repair and come back full strength. -.-

Range nerf. Our long range was basically all we had against UGTO. Nothing to be done about K'luth but our weapons are already weaker than others and we were supposed to make up for this in lack of falloff. Mr. Black explained this to me himself in the lobby not too long ago. You only nerfed ICC but indirectly buffed UGTO as well by forcing us to get closer.

Devs have to remember that by screwing with one faction you mess with the other two as well. Our dreads are already either ineffective with their weapon loads or so energy consuming it doesn't matter along with the IC nerf. On top of all that, having limited ammo supplies as we do, our cruisers can't whittle down others without jumping out every 5 minutes -.-

Not to mention our stations being already fragile as they are without a way to quickly recharge our shields. They have lower hp than armor and cannot be repaired. Sure they recharge quicker than armor without external help but it just doesn't work out since they just jump out to planet-hug and come back when we have maybe 50% shields. If that much.

UGTO isn't appealing because they are over-powered. They are just the only other choice if you don't want to play as a K'luth. Bringing stuff in line with the other factions doesn't work because all three factions are unique. You take that uniqueness and make it conform, our advantages become our weakness.

Granted, other factions will have something to say as well about you nerfing them. But this hits ICC hard enough to not even be a nerf anymore.

Sure, I'll say some ICC players have insane skill dealing with all these types of things along with the added multi-tasking our ships require...

But this is too much.


[ This Message was edited by: Ian9018's Ghost on 2010-04-04 23:24 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
Posted: 2010-04-04 23:42   
You guys are suprised by this? ICC are always the half-tarded stepchild of Darkspace. Just sit back and enjoy it
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Jamesbond
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy


Joined: February 05, 2003
Posts: 146
From: Venice Florida
Posted: 2010-04-05 00:01   
I think the whole reason for all of this complaining right now is just the fact that no one basically plays as ICC. If yall had the same numbers that UGTO or Kluth have than I highly doubt yall would be complaining as much. So your range got nerfed, if your going to basically complain about people point jumping ya than get off your high horse of a dread or station and get into a dictor to pi** people off.

I do it, Its fun to hear people complaining. Also gives your mds and "fleet" members time to whittle away ead armor and bd armor by the time they get within range to do any actual damage. One little ship can considerably help your faction in any sort of engagment. You put your dictor out 500 gu in front of your mds/cds/stations and i can tell ya there aint no way any ugto ship is going to make it to where it can actually do damage.

Maybe the devs need to start giving people who use dictors or extractors some bonus prestige to start getting these ships into combat more. This is supposed to be mostly a fleet game, so start acting like one.

Maybe like in scenario there is a way to close off UGTO/Kluth factions in the MV till we get at least a larger amount of ICC players.
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