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Stations, what are they good for? |
buzzcoxss (Artisen Anitomical)
Fleet Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 144
|  Posted: 2010-05-02 01:31
OMG OMG you guys need to grow a pair what is this mirv wars all over agine i mean take the mirv word out and put station in most of the poeple are newbies or people comeing back from a long break and lack the rank for a station and are pissed b/c they cant pull a station out ver simple and station fleet can be taken down ya it may take some time ya you may die its part of the game you lose you win you live and you die stop crying about loseing prz
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2010-05-02 01:36
I see an all to easy solution to station stacking...
Station collisions.
*When one station runs into another, both explode!
Problem solved and you get a bit of a laugh when the UGTO try to stack 6 stations for the first few times. Win Win.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-05-02 02:22
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On 2010-05-02 01:36, Winters Rapture wrote:
I see an all to easy solution to station stacking...
Station collisions.
*When one station runs into another, both explode!
Problem solved and you get a bit of a laugh when the UGTO try to stack 6 stations for the first few times. Win Win.
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+1 i agree SO MAJORLY. station collision - KAB00M
Ok, seriously, i think we should all stop whining, and back a single, sound plan.
I propose officialy to the devs:
Each faction has ship class limits.
EG: ugto has 11 players online. for this, they are allowed:
1 station
3 dreds
5 cruisers
2 destroyers
2 supply ships
3 engies
1 frigate
2 transports
1 corvette
Note: this is what i think, and may possibly not be what the devs/playerbase think. however, it gives a example of ship class caps.
of course, atleast 1 of any ship type should be allowed at any one time, for obovious reasons.
As player number increases, caps do too, simple as that.
just my 2 cents
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-05-02 03:40
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On 2010-05-01 22:50, Sardaukar wrote:
I know that proposing innovation in tactics is a bit anathema these days, but have you considered how gorram slow a station is? Combine this with their immense armor rings. I guarentee you, there will always be a situation where you can park some assault ships very close to a station and absolutely annihilate one armor arc while his allies are unable to shoot you- because it'd mean hitting him. Strike, kill, withdraw, reposition, repeat.
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That WONT work saur.ICC shields CANNOT take the pounding it would recieve.I know done it many times and got kill PDFQ.UGTO armor repair rate is with enough drones invinsible...when it takes 6 assault dreads to down one battle dread something if fracked.Think I'm full of it,grab a few friends while UGTO is out in force,,,pick a target and try it....IN ICC SHIPS.
The weps range reduction was a major nerf to ICC whether you want to believe it or not.We are RANGED.NOT close combat,with that one change you made UGTO the winning faction.Nice job.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2010-05-02 04:14
another thing stations could be done to change the station spamming is up the pres loss from em. back in 483 if you lost a fully modded support station it was roughly a 1k press lost. now you lose a station its like 300 at best.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-05-02 04:31
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 22:50, Sardaukar wrote:
Strike, kill, withdraw, reposition, repeat.
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It's more like.
Strike, Damage one arc, Get dictor'd, Die, Repeat with the arc you just damaged repaired full again.
Nerf the repair rate of a supply to Standard Armour or limit number of drones to one person to 3-6
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-02 05:03
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On 2010-05-02 01:29, Sardaukar wrote:
An assault ship can survive station alphas. Heck, my assault cruiser can beat a K'luth dread in head-to-head no-dodging spacebarmash combat (I have empirical proof) without even going into hull; I'm sure that it'll hold well against a station in terms of firepower. But that's irrelevant; "An" is irrelevant. "Many" is the word you want. And you can get "many" if you have even six players.
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Take 5 of yr ACs head to head with 5 stations. Will yr ACs make it out?
We're not even talking one to one anymore. 5 stations vs a mixed fleet with twice or thrice the numbers; stations win. Add planet hugging, stations pwns.
And you're comparing your AC armor for armor vs a Kluth ship? No dodging? What kind of a skewed test is that?? When everyone knows Kluth ships have an armor deficit vs hoonam ships...
My point in this whole matter is:
Stations are fine. They are not that OP. They don't need nerfing.
The problem is station population. Because of their armor and weapons, in addition to repair capabilities, having too many stations effectively ends the game for most other classes of ships. Your faction has to all field stations to counter.
Setting a class limit per server for stations only (Dreads are fine, no need limits) will make for more varied n interesting battles.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-05-02 06:54 ]
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*Obsidian Shadow*
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2010-05-02 08:52
ICC's shields and UGTO's multiple plates of armour pretty much total up to the same amount of damage tolerance. you say that UGTO have stupidly quick rep times but i say ICC have too many missiles.
The game IS balanced you just have to look at it as a whole so UGTO doesn't need nerfing. the faction balance is just right in my opinion it wasn't UGTO's fault that we have a bigger player base. it's the new players who first start the game who choose what faction they want to stick with.
also capping the amount of dreads/stations would just result in anger because people who work on getting to FA or whatever rank and finally get it and they can't even use it... i wouldn't be too happy would you??
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-02 08:52
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On 2010-05-01 21:36, Fast Starcommand *CO* wrote:
issues with station spam. they can't fight effectively because of all the FF. You don't see all those UGTO SS's shooting at once becasue all those missles would FF there allies and make for pres loss instead of gain.
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actually i usually dont see any missiles at all when they station spam. they only fire their core weapons and fighters when they do this.
and comon you were there yesterday when we tried to take back that system in sag, you really think they werent effective? 
we died, they didnt.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-02 09:46
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On 2010-05-02 01:29, Sardaukar wrote:
An assault ship can survive station alphas. Heck, my assault cruiser can beat a K'luth dread in head-to-head no-dodging spacebarmash combat (I have empirical proof) without even going into hull; I'm sure that it'll hold well against a station in terms of firepower. But that's irrelevant; "An" is irrelevant. "Many" is the word you want. And you can get "many" if you have even six players.
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sure but how long will that take? and against a dread supported by a SS or even a few suppys your just not gonna kill it.
same issue with spamming alot of support stations, when theres enough of them out you just can not kill one no matter what you do. or it just takes to long that they can out tank your fleet.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-05-02 10:03
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On 2010-05-02 08:52, obsidian shadow wrote:
ICC's shields and UGTO's multiple plates of armour pretty much total up to the same amount of damage tolerance. you say that UGTO have stupidly quick rep times but i say ICC have too many missiles. |
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Not enough missiles to destroy a Station if it's flanked by three other Stations, though.
I believe the staff has given us their response already. To dumb down Sardaukar's response, "lol learn2play".
I think it's time we get some hard numbers then to see if we can persuade the staff with an argument of numbers rather than try to appeal with our experiences.
If we could agree on a date to do it, I'd like to have five Vice Admirals or up, and five Fleet Admirals or up to come into Beta.
The idea is obviously to pit a varying number of Stations against a varying number of Missile Dreadnoughts, then Assault Cruisers, and other various tests to see just how well UGTO Stations fare in comparison to their ICC counter-parts, and try to get some data we can prove with screenshots and everything.
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Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
| Posted: 2010-05-02 10:08
I have a way which may fix this issue... only allow 3 stations on each faction t be near eachother at any given point in time, they all have a 5k gu radius around them, if another station attempts to go there. the server boots them out of jump or back to where they were before they hit a wormhole.
To clarify, the 5k would be from all of them, if all three have a radius which overlaps, they create a psudo dictor field for their own factions stations. if its only two, one can jump in and the field pops up. if they are all 5k from eachother, two can pop up near each indavidual station. if you attempt to spawn a station in this radius, you just get booted back to the garage and you can spawn somewhere else
This solves the issue of people not being able to get their favorite station, but it keeps people from stacking 10+ stations in a 400 gu radius...
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-05-02 10:44
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On 2010-05-02 10:08, Rhiawhyn Zerinth wrote:
I have a way which may fix this issue... only allow 3 stations on each faction t be near eachother at any given point in time, they all have a 5k gu radius around them, if another station attempts to go there. the server boots them out of jump or back to where they were before they hit a wormhole.
To clarify, the 5k would be from all of them, if all three have a radius which overlaps, they create a psudo dictor field for their own factions stations. if its only two, one can jump in and the field pops up. if they are all 5k from eachother, two can pop up near each indavidual station. if you attempt to spawn a station in this radius, you just get booted back to the garage and you can spawn somewhere else
This solves the issue of people not being able to get their favorite station, but it keeps people from stacking 10+ stations in a 400 gu radius...
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thats just to much work tho.
stations needs to have a more defined role, support stations just shouldn't have much of any combat capabilities other then for self defence. battle stations shouldn't have much of anything in terms of repair capabilities.
and most importantly, if you lose a station it should HURT, right now you can make up for a station loss in about 10 minutes and still end up gaining pres.
i dont mind dreads and lower ships having low "death penalties" but stations are so powerful right now that they should come at a HUGE cost of losing one.
its so bad that before the kamikaze nerf ppl were chain SD'ing stations and win that way.
hmm, here's an idea. stations as we all know are frikkin' big right? as big or even bigger then certain planets/moons.
and we all know that things big enough generate their own gravity field right?
so how about making stations that are to close to one another damage eachother over time (basically ripping eachother apart from the pure mass) when theres more then ooh, 4 within a 1000 GU radius? and not slow enough damage that its easily repairable either.
that way ppl can still have a decent number of stations around a planet to defend, or in a attack fleet but not so many that it gets silly.
so that means you can still have as many stations out as ppl want, just not at the same spot. and the 1000 GU radius means that the rest of the stations have to stay far enough away from repair range but still be within missile range for some usability, just nowhere near enough to warrant more stations over dreads or something else.
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buzzcoxss (Artisen Anitomical)
Fleet Admiral
Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 144
| Posted: 2010-05-02 10:57
GOD you poeple sound like democrats far left old farts.............. if u cap ship amounts it will kill this game who the hell would want to sit around and wait to spawn a dread or a station you we the many do not want that we all work hard for are rank and do not need that nerfed it will kill DS i know you think its a good idead but realy think about it. dont be stupied you old farts
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2010-05-02 11:31
Making stations cost a ton is not the solution.
All this will do is just cause a constant use of dreads. Which will be almost as boring as a bunch of stations. And the problem will stay unless ppl start implementing a way to encourage a diverse fleet.
The problem here is the linear progression system. big ship eat small ship.
The solution to this is to complete the loop by having ships that can easily take out stations & dreads while being weak against corvets and frigates
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