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Dev log1 |
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
|  Posted: 2010-05-12 10:58
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As I stated above, this only affects a minority of players who were using a particular setup in some cases. Most players should see little to no difference.
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You mean only cruisers and below?
Dreads arent meant for psi or plasma usage. I agree on that. But I should remind you it is a MMO. Means battles dont happen between 2 players but 5 vs 5 or so on. Have you ever thought how the hell kluth could take down an enemy dictor in battle field with this kind of range? Ohh i can hear you saying go cloaked with 2 dreads and kill it . Please Jack, you can do better than this.
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-05-12 18:14
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On 2010-05-12 10:58, Pakhos wrote:
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As I stated above, this only affects a minority of players who were using a particular setup in some cases. Most players should see little to no difference.
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You mean only cruisers and below?
Dreads arent meant for psi or plasma usage. I agree on that. But I should remind you it is a MMO. Means battles dont happen between 2 players but 5 vs 5 or so on. Have you ever thought how the hell kluth could take down an enemy dictor in battle field with this kind of range? Ohh i can hear you saying go cloaked with 2 dreads and kill it . Please Jack, you can do better than this.
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ITs actually a successful strategie, WHat do you have to complain bout?
you ahev cloak, now you want Range too? how about some Core that can Insta kill statiosn while your at it Pak
yu make no sense
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19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-13 00:25
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On 2010-05-12 18:14, Zero28 wrote:
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On 2010-05-12 10:58, Pakhos wrote:
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As I stated above, this only affects a minority of players who were using a particular setup in some cases. Most players should see little to no difference.
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You mean only cruisers and below?
Dreads arent meant for psi or plasma usage. I agree on that. But I should remind you it is a MMO. Means battles dont happen between 2 players but 5 vs 5 or so on. Have you ever thought how the hell kluth could take down an enemy dictor in battle field with this kind of range? Ohh i can hear you saying go cloaked with 2 dreads and kill it . Please Jack, you can do better than this.
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ITs actually a successful strategie, WHat do you have to complain bout?
you ahev cloak, now you want Range too? how about some Core that can Insta kill statiosn while your at it Pak
yu make no sense
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You do realize that the smaller ships, dessies and frigs mainly, have to rely on some sort of distance to survive against more heavily armed and armored hoonam ships. Especially these days, what with UGTO flying Shrooms and dreads almost all of the time, and also ICC cruisers and dreads.
Shortening the ranges basically makes life almost impossible for noob Kluths. They have to get in closer to get any hits in, and results in a higher casualty rate for them.
The end result is probably a switch to the easier-to-play factions.... ie UGTO.
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-13 03:37
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On 2010-05-13 02:53, NoBoDx wrote:
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On 2010-05-13 00:25, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
The end result is probably a switch to the easier-to-play factions.... ie UGTO.
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...or games
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Yup.
So Jack, as you said, Kluths are difficult to balance. And yer probably right. Add this factor to your equation and see whether that 17% range nerf is the right thing to do for noob Kluths.
TT being said.... no one likes being nerfed. So I'm not gonna ask for UGTO ships or weaps being nerfed.
But:
ICC shield recharge rates need buffing.
And if yer gonna go on with nerfing the PSI and Plasma range, then their damage needs buffing too.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Nimitz
Fleet Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: April 19, 2005
Posts: 141
From: Melbourne, Australia
| Posted: 2010-05-13 08:39
Unless this has been fixed in beta, Kluth SI range needs to be lowered. Take tonight as an example, Lithium sat in his Krill ~1100gu away from Eternity and sniped all of our plats using SI. If we sit at the planet, our only counter is IT/AR missiles, which do almost no damage to a Krill.
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\"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.\" -- Rich Cook
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2010-05-13 08:44
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On 2010-05-13 00:25, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
You do realize that the smaller ships, dessies and frigs mainly, have to rely on some sort of distance to survive against more heavily armed and armored hoonam ships. Especially these days, what with UGTO flying Shrooms and dreads almost all of the time, and also ICC cruisers and dreads.
Shortening the ranges basically makes life almost impossible for noob Kluths. They have to get in closer to get any hits in, and results in a higher casualty rate for them.
The end result is probably a switch to the easier-to-play factions.... ie UGTO.
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Indeed its gonna be hard for noob, but hey!
THE FACTION IS DESIGN TO BE CLOSE RANGE IN THE FIRST PLACE
you now making references to player numbers in there ships, as devs said Before
There will be no change in balance over Player numbers
_________________
19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Nimitz
Fleet Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: April 19, 2005
Posts: 141
From: Melbourne, Australia
| Posted: 2010-05-13 08:52
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On 2010-05-13 00:25, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
You do realize that the smaller ships, dessies and frigs mainly, have to rely on some sort of distance to survive against more heavily armed and armored hoonam ships. |
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I would agree except they still get pres shooting at bigger targets (dreads, stations) from far away, now that armour damage counts. So lowering the range of their weapons will force them to come closer to targets, thereby making them choose more appropriate targets while giving said targets at least a chance at countering the frigs/dessies.
_________________
\"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.\" -- Rich Cook
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2010-05-13 09:15
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On 2010-05-13 08:39, Nimitz wrote:
Unless this has been fixed in beta, Kluth SI range needs to be lowered. Take tonight as an example, Lithium sat in his Krill ~1100gu away from Eternity and sniped all of our plats using SI. If we sit at the planet, our only counter is IT/AR missiles, which do almost no damage to a Krill.
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So don't sit at the planet. You only need to advance 150gu to fire all cannons. And you can keep sitting at the planet if you attach some range enhancements against full range enhancements ship.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-13 09:31
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On 2010-05-13 09:15, Lithium wrote:
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On 2010-05-13 08:39, Nimitz wrote:
Unless this has been fixed in beta, Kluth SI range needs to be lowered. Take tonight as an example, Lithium sat in his Krill ~1100gu away from Eternity and sniped all of our plats using SI. If we sit at the planet, our only counter is IT/AR missiles, which do almost no damage to a Krill.
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So don't sit at the planet. You only need to advance 150gu to fire all cannons. And you can keep sitting at the planet if you attach some range enhancements against full range enhancements ship.
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I think his beef is the fact that K'luth aren't designed to do that at range, of which they're not.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2010-05-13 10:05
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On 2010-05-12 09:18, BackSlash wrote:
I did the tweaks (if you mouse over the - in the dev log you can see who made the change), as I do most of the K'luth stuff.
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Waita minute, BACKSLASH does the kluth tweaking?
he only plays Ugto...
Is there a Kluth dev doing the Ugto tweaks?
edit: right, no kluth devs....
u reduced Psi range to less than SI?! with a ur bloody torps go farther than that!
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2010-05-13 10:07 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-13 10:25
Quote:
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On 2010-05-13 08:39, Nimitz wrote:
Unless this has been fixed in beta, Kluth SI range needs to be lowered. Take tonight as an example, Lithium sat in his Krill ~1100gu away from Eternity and sniped all of our plats using SI. If we sit at the planet, our only counter is IT/AR missiles, which do almost no damage to a Krill.
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So he sniped at your plats from 1.1K gu away.
Whatcha gonna do about it??
How about breaking orbit, stop hugging that rock, and go get him......??
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-05-13 12:27
Here's the problem: Kluth were intended to fight at close range in a version of the game very different from the current version. Weapon layouts, armor values, shields, platforms, planet defenses etc. are all so different from the early versions of this game, where Kluth were close range, that it's crazy to expect the same thing now from the 3 factions.
It's also crazy to constantly change things so much in a game that's 9 years old.
Kluth as close range worked great back when there were no platforms, Kluth had no armor or very little armor, and their weapons did massive damage in 1 alpha. These days we can't expect them to always get up close, especially vs planets with platforms and defense.
This version is so different from previous versions that I think the original 9 year old ideas about the 3 factions should be thrown out, or we're gonna wind up with a game that has no clear direction and is changed every month or so. Wait we already have that...
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-05-13 13:30
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On 2010-05-13 12:27, MrSparkle wrote:
snip
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We're still recovering from 1.483. These "new directions" every month are one direction we're still heading towards. 1.483 ruined the game, its design, and how the factions worked. The original designs of the factions were never scrapped, removed, forgotten, or modifier. They're still there, and we still aim for all of them to play their roll.
This game will never be a single faction in 3 different skins. Each is designed to play differently.
Trying to fix the mess that was left for few of us to clean up is not an easy job. It's very, very easy for a player to point a finger and say "FIX IT" or "CHANGE IT" because of . The simple fact of the matter is that it's not that easy. You can change a value here and there, but it can cascade in a completely different way than you intended.
Remember that we're doing this for free, without pay, in our free time, when we can. We're essentially fixing the game, and it doesn't help when some of you moan constantly and have kneejerk reactions to small tweaks. It's expected (as is with every gaming community) when a value is moved in the opposite way to the way you personally want. But what you personally want is not always how things are meant to be.
You all have your individual views of DarkSpace. Not one of them will coinside with anyone elses.
If this tweak is affecting you, then you weren't playing K'luth as it was intended. Forget all you learnt from 1.483, and how has become. The original designs still apply, they're still what we aim for, and what we're working towards.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-05-13 13:34 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-13 13:54
Quote:
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On 2010-05-13 12:27, MrSparkle wrote:
Here's the problem: Kluth were intended to fight at close range in a version of the game very different from the current version. Weapon layouts, armor values, shields, platforms, planet defenses etc. are all so different from the early versions of this game, where Kluth were close range, that it's crazy to expect the same thing now from the 3 factions.
It's also crazy to constantly change things so much in a game that's 9 years old.
Kluth as close range worked great back when there were no platforms, Kluth had no armor or very little armor, and their weapons did massive damage in 1 alpha. These days we can't expect them to always get up close, especially vs planets with platforms and defense.
This version is so different from previous versions that I think the original 9 year old ideas about the 3 factions should be thrown out, or we're gonna wind up with a game that has no clear direction and is changed every month or so. Wait we already have that...
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Sparkle , you just wrote exactly what have we come from the original concept of the game until today. Having 3 eccm bases on any planet and 5 eccm platsform around it stops the kluth to do any close range assault. And the worst of it enemy knows that. Thats why they hug the damn planet for the defense and when we assault them from 800-1000 gu suddenly we suppose to be a close range faction. People never think Why kluth have their platforms in deep space , even in a friendly system.Icc or ugto will farm those weapon/supply platform without losing a single % of armor. Talking about being fair , let em lose some armor for killing something. We can have 90+ signal on any cruiser at 500 gu from enemy planet and decloaking and shooting one voley of psi on any ship /platform and cloaking again is suicide. Why none of kluths assault a well defended planet with most uber ships (nest) that kluth has? Because that nest will have 50% hull before it gets in the fire range.
Even in deepspace battles , if there is more than 6 ugto dreads running eccm , it will take more than 20 seconds to cloak for a krill which I use to lose a good 40% - 50% of hull until cloaking is over. If they have a sensor scout well, it is even worse.
What is the point of me flying a beak if I need to make 20 volleys of psi on an EAD to hull him and he gets repaired his armor to 100% in 30 seconds.
Talking about repair , what is the point of having 300 gu range on any Assault D. and torpedos if you need to go in range of enemy beams where enemy hugs tons of depots and plats. Hlc is stronger than ad . Ok hlc does 25% damage at max range . But dont they know that? Dont you know they use their beams under 200 gu? Only one who is gonna die is kluth .(at least we outnumber them 2:1). But this kind of dev mistakes just make newbies to go Ugto . I bet ugto has 3:1 newbies over icc and kluth together. Surely newbie will play the easiest faction until he can fly a dread and try other factions.
Didnt want to write all those games experience. I just wanted to play the game which at least seems more balanced for me. But this psi range reduction news opened the phandora box.
So the list :
1-Make ugto armor repair rate slower.
2-Make ad more stronger than hlc.(we must be the most agresive right?)
3-Lower the eccm effectiveness. (cruiser dont want to have 90+ signal nor dessies 60+)
4- Reduce psi range to 650gu.
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2010-05-13 18:27
Finally someone is talking sense.
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