| Author |
Core Weapons |
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
|  Posted: 2010-05-14 17:11
every faction is made to do X, so Kluth, close combat masters, ICC long range. Each faction also has its EXCEPTIONS to the rule as well. ICC has the AC/AD and the Kluth have the Gangla. These are just 1 ship that is the exception to what the overall of the faction is.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-14 17:44
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 17:11, Starcommand of ICC wrote:
every faction is made to do X, so Kluth, close combat masters, ICC long range. Each faction also has its EXCEPTIONS to the rule as well. ICC has the AC/AD and the Kluth have the Gangla. These are just 1 ship that is the exception to what the overall of the faction is.
|
|
I dont think we can call this as exceptions. It is a simple development error. For example , Dev say kluth must be close combat faction. Amen that. But Why mid and long range faction's dread have heavy beams on them instead of having all long ranged cannons and maybe some light beams to PD?
Just think as someone who doesnt know anything about darkspace and havent played it once. You explain the guy ; kluth is based on close combat ,full of beams and some cannons . Ugto is base on mid-long range ,some beams and some cannons. Icc is based on long range, some beams and full of cannons. Thats how the game sounds correct. But when this guy starts to play , he notices , ugto and icc can give a hell to kluth in close combat with all those beams. Also notices , a ship called krill , can snipe someone from 800 gu. That is the problem we have.
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
|
Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2010-05-14 18:00
You're mistaking design guidelines for immutable dogmas.
_________________
|
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-14 19:28
In the case of the krill, the large problem with its range is that the projectiles, unlike missiles, do massive damage at high speed and can't be shot down by PD. Even the ICC masters of ranged combat can't say that for any of their dreads... so why can the krill?
This is part of why I'm asking for the speed to be reduced. The long range accuracy is just too high because of the projectile speed. But I go further and say it's not just SI, but all of them. The SI only gets more attention because increasingly luth players are relying almost solely on them for damage (through the krill).
Drop the speed, and core weapons will be just as effective at their designed role. What it will stop, is dreads being able to dish so much damage to smaller ships and high damage snipe at long range.
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-05-14 19:50
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 19:28, Lonectzn wrote:
What it will stop, is dreads being able to dish so much damage to smaller ships and high damage snipe at long range.
|
|
Why should Dreads not be able to do so much damage to smaller ships, again?
_________________
|
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-05-14 20:00
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 19:28, Lonectzn wrote:
In the case of the krill, the large problem with its range is that the projectiles, unlike missiles, do massive damage at high speed and can't be shot down by PD. Even the ICC masters of ranged combat can't say that for any of their dreads... so why can the krill?
This is part of why I'm asking for the speed to be reduced. The long range accuracy is just too high because of the projectile speed. But I go further and say it's not just SI, but all of them. The SI only gets more attention because increasingly luth players are relying almost solely on them for damage (through the krill).
Drop the speed, and core weapons will be just as effective at their designed role. What it will stop, is dreads being able to dish so much damage to smaller ships and high damage snipe at long range.
|
|
LEARN 2 PLAY
Everything is dogable at a certain distance, the smaller the ship the harder it is to hit it. If you are at 400gu and getting hit by an IC or SI in a cruiser or smaller, then its your own fault for NOT quickly turning to get out of the way.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-14 20:15
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 19:50, Bardiche wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 19:28, Lonectzn wrote:
What it will stop, is dreads being able to dish so much damage to smaller ships and high damage snipe at long range.
|
|
Why should Dreads not be able to do so much damage to smaller ships, again?
|
|
Probably the better question is, why should they? Isn't it already well accepted that there is a strong bias towards larger ships? This is after all the 'dreadspace' argument.
And to starcommand - the same question. Why do the core weapons need the speed they have? It's far out of proportion to normal torp/missile speeds. Is the specific role of these weapons to hit small ships at medium range? And if not, why the high speed?
The fact is, if core weapons were not already in the game, and the devs were looking at something like this on paper, I can't see any reason why such a high projectile speed would be picked compared to existing weapons. The responses I've seen in this topic have been really the usual "well I already have this so how dare you suggest taking it away", or "it's balanced because you suck" variety.
Suggest a reason why the speed - which we know is disproportionate to the other weapons - is right for a weapon with that range and damage.
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2010-05-14 21:05
One does not answer questions with questions. You are questioning an existing game mechanic, so you are the one who should provide a reason on why that is wrong.
Obviously since I never raised an issue about this I think it's pretty OK and normal that big ships should be stronger than small ships, and should definitely be able to swat small ships.
No, really, you provide a reason why the Dreadnoughts shouldn't be able to hit Destroyers.
_________________
|
Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-05-14 21:10
A better question is: From a development standpoint, what is the role of core weapons?
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-15 00:25
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-14 21:05, Bardiche wrote:
One does not answer questions with questions. You are questioning an existing game mechanic, so you are the one who should provide a reason on why that is wrong.
Obviously since I never raised an issue about this I think it's pretty OK and normal that big ships should be stronger than small ships, and should definitely be able to swat small ships.
No, really, you provide a reason why the Dreadnoughts shouldn't be able to hit Destroyers.
|
|
I don't think it's abt dreads doing damage to little ships. Big ships are supposed to do massive damage to little ships.
It's more a question of big ships actually hitting the little ships in the first place. Big ships shd have a harder time hitting the little ships. But when they do....
I think that's what they're trying to put forth.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2010-05-15 02:11
Ok, listen newbies. Lonect has been around DS longer than you nitwits have even probably been in diapers. He was pushing GA rank when you lot were still figuring out that you couldn't land on planets. He reset his rank in order to get a feel for the game again. That's right, HE DELETED MORE PRESTIGE THAN YOU HAVE EARNED IN YOUR SHORT LITTLE TENURES! You should probably listen to him, he KINDA knows what the hell he's talking about (unlike some others).
_________________
Do I really look like a guy with a plan?
'I'm gonna go crazy, and I'm taking you with me!'
ICC Security Council Chief Enforcer
|
Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2010-05-15 02:13
Oh, and incase anyone wants to question MY tenure out of some misplaced ideal that rank or anything or that sort means a darn thing... this account isn't even my first account. Food for thought: You never know who is talking. You may just be making a complete ass out of yourself by dismissing something based on something as retarded & pointless as rank.
[ This Message was edited by: Coeus [C.S.S. Shrike] on 2010-05-15 02:13 ]
_________________
Darkspace: Twilight
|
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-05-15 02:15
Wow, thats what i call kissing ass....
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
|
Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-05-15 02:19
Quote:
|
On 2010-05-15 02:11, Coeus wrote:
....
|
|
Note the join dates....hes got about a year on me and back then a year was what it took to get past VA maybe GA at best if you played and were lucky enough to find someone.
When....WHEN! Dreads hit dessys or the smaller ships it hurts, but thats a WHEN! Its not one hit pop shots like the old days either. If you are getting hit by a dread, your not doing something right. yes the core weps have a high hit ratio, but they NEED it to be able to hit ANYTHING. Its just 1 type of wep thats hitting its not the "OMG beamzorz" or other piddly guns, its just the core hitting. QST are easy to doge, slow but pack a punch, IC fire 2 shots and it needs both to land to do full damage, SI are short range, hit hard and are just as easy to avoid as IC.
_________________
WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.
There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.
|
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-15 03:01
It's not a veteran pissing contest anyway (I hope).
Generally, in my experience both using core weapons and having them used against me, they are extremely effective against cruiser and smaller hulls when compared to similar weapons (torps/missiles). Just as it has been pointed out to us that the Krill is not meant to be a long range SI sniper, I don't feel core weapons are meant to be effective small ship bashers.
Now, I think I've set out the reasons I think there's an imbalance. But why do you think they need the speed they have? Against dreads they are impossible - read - impossible to avoid below med range. Meanwhile we have torps, which can still hit well but require a bit of timing and placement. Is it absolutely necessary that cores be guaranteed space-mashing hits at close range? Have we forgotten the days of needing to time your shots and use care?
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-15 03:03 ]
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
