| Author |
The problem of Station Parking and possible solution. |
Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
|  Posted: 2010-06-27 16:56
So let me paint you a little picture here. You and your fleet just capped an enemy planet, the dictor isn't up yet (or maybe it is, who knows?) and you're all sitting around the planet congratulating yourselves. You've got a few dreads, some cruisers, and a station or two. All of a sudden, a dread appears and like the jackass at the movie theater takes the handicapped parking spot... right underneath a Station - dead center. Friendlies shoot him at first, then (hopefully) they realize that they can't hit him and are only hurting their allied station (there is one newb who thinks he can hit him though, and someone has to put themselves between him and the station and take some FF before the guy stops).
So now you've got a dread sitting under a already battle weary station: What do you do? Nothing. You can do nothing. The only person who can hit the dread is the station - and that is just assuming that it's a Nest, Line Station, or Battle Station with lots of beams. Anything else and you might as well just log the frig off. If the enemy is a siphon there is a very good chance that the station will die. If there are any planetary defenses, they're long since ripping into the station...
So in the best of situations: The dread is boomskied - again, directly under the station after it's been point blanking it for a good solid minute - and the station has no armor/shields, and probably somewhat on the order of 20-40% health. And all this, is just from ONE ship. One, solo person in a team game. Mull that one over a second. A single person took down the largest and most powerful of ships in the game to near death (or complete death if there is enough planetary defenses/trigger happy newbies).
Now I'm all for getting rid of station space using skill and tactical prowess. Cruisers & Dreads make for good combat... but station parking does not equal either of those IMHO.
Solution? In the past - we used tractor beams to push the person away - took a bit of effort with dreads (people used to do it with scouts all the time... was quite entertaining at the time, because a tractor often put the scout into the planet or dead center of the friendly fleet). As Draf has said in another thread tractors ability to push/pull people was removed because of the synch issues surrounding it - now there is nothing to stop people from being that afformentioned Theater Jackass and taking the handicapped spot (Oh, I'm sorry... handicapable!  ).
Two things have been mentioned about this problem that I feel warrant thought and discussion.
1) An insanely powerful point-blank-only range beam weapon that can almost instantly vaporize anything smaller than a cruiser - I don't like this because even if said Graviton Mega Beam Thingy existed and was soooo short range that it only worked on ships directly under you there is still sooo much potential for abuse with something that powerful. Not to mention the energy requirements would likely mean that if the person comes back and does it again, and again and again and again (as many of the 483 bombers & various Marshalls & CMs have the capability of doing) it becomes a pointless endeavour - and we should NOT be rewarding people for throwing away mass numbers of ships at a single target.
2) A very powerful very short range tractor beam (or other short range repulsing device that pushes enemy ships away from you). Now the tractor desynch issue still exists, but it is my belief that if the burst is kept short enough range and duration, the effects would be minimal. I've nothing to back this up except common sense thought process, so if Faust or Draf want to chime in on how a short range short duration tractor MIGHT impact synch between two people & the server that'd be appreciated. The beauty of this is that it isn't an offensive weapon - it can't be abused to take advantage of smaller enemies who are just innocently flying around the combat zone (granted if they get that close to an enemy station... kind of a learning experience), the station doesn't get an immediate massive pres gain from the combat damage, and the parking spot is kept reserved.
Now I haven't meantioned the obvious and often used "solution" of the station simply jumping out, because that isn't a solution. A solution resolves the problem - the problem still exists with a retreat. That would be like a dread being forced to retreat from a scout in a 1v1 battle. It shouldn't happen.
/Thoughts? Comments? Discussion? Save the QQing at my QQing for /y please 
//tl;dr? Then don't comment.
///A third solution exists... Parking Tickets! I can send a letter to the Philadelphia Parking Authority (ya'no... the guys on that show Parking Wars?) and see if they can't send in some guidance on how to abuse parking ticket authority!
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2010-06-28 00:01
#2 definitely. A repulsor beam that could be put in the tractor/mining beam slot would be awesome.
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Kangaroosteak
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 03, 2010
Posts: 149
From: Somewhere...
| Posted: 2010-06-28 01:34
Maybe something that is visually simular to the pulse wave, but with smaller aoe so that ships don't get pushed too far.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-06-28 12:08
WEll that looks like gonna take some time to code. Since you mentioned that u got couple of each combat class ship in the area , why not getting a Dictor ship?
Oh wait , the point is make devs work more..
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-28 14:08
Quote:
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On 2010-06-28 00:01, Chewy Squirrel {om nom nom nom nom} wrote:
#2 definitely. A repulsor beam that could be put in the tractor/mining beam slot would be awesome.
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Last I played, the tractor beam could be made to push ships away by simply holding shift when activating it. Would that not be a repulsor beam?
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-06-28 16:34
Im pretty agreeable with the second solution personally.
Either that, or enable collisions for Stations only. I could live with that too.
-Ent
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2010-06-28 17:33
It may slow down the UGTO ones a bit (I wouldn't bet on it) - but an ICC AD in defense mode or a cloaked K'Luth Siphon can do some serious frickin damage in the time left after the 30 some odd seconds it takes to get to the station. Bear in mind that ICC have been running with dicos recently - still is an issue. And thats just one person - if there are two? Forgetaboutit - you got one dead shroom/stool/flower on your hands more likely than not.
[Edit]@Kanman - I addressed that. Tractors can no longer be used on people, according to Draf or Shig or someone, mostly due to desynch issues - which if you remember they were a problem back then.
[ This Message was edited by: Coeus on 2010-06-28 17:35 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2010-07-02 22:30
Give stations a space around their hull, 10 gu wide, which is inaccessible by ships. This margin area should be enough to push dreads parking below stations to an altitude where they can be shot at with torpedoes, cannons and beams. This won't work flawlessly with missiles and their curved tracking system.
That, or make players immune from splash damage of their own weapons, much like fighter cannons.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2010-07-11 20:31
I'm not sure the game engine can do that without modification - otherwise it just becomes part of the station hitbox and you've just made them EASIER to hit.
I still think a short range powerful ships tractor is the best bet...
Can it be something that can ONLY be activated on enemy ships, to prevent friendly abuse?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-07-12 05:47
anyone of played Homeworld: Cataclysm ? the higara dreads have a repulse-wave, pushing everything away
but i also wanted a small dictor-field for stations anyway 
im currently thinking about something like this
[ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2010-07-12 06:09 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-07-18 03:14
Quote:
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On 2010-06-28 12:08, Pakhos wrote:
WEll that looks like gonna take some time to code. Since you mentioned that u got couple of each combat class ship in the area , why not getting a Dictor ship?
Oh wait , the point is make devs work more..
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LOL. What Pak said.
Srsly now, you should know that a newly capped planet is a hotzone for counterattacks...
Start pinging away folks.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-07-19 13:27
Quote:
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On 2010-06-28 16:34, Enterprise wrote:
Im pretty agreeable with the second solution personally.
Either that, or enable collisions for Stations only. I could live with that too.
-Ent
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As amusing as station collisions would be, it would play hell with trying to spawn anything from a busy planet. If you've got ships launching from a planet and all of a sudden someone spawns a station ontop of them and they all go boom there's going to be a lot of very angry people.
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