On 2010-06-29 00:58, Slycon *MW* wrote:

4. I think there should be about 15 less missles per frig. the amount they currently carry is far to much.

On 2010-06-28 17:38, Enterprise wrote:
He's angry because he tried to jump three frigates in his carrier dreadnaught and died.



-Ent

On 2010-06-29 02:31, Diep Luc wrote:
The only complainment of me is: MF too OP, so who will use MD?

MD is much stronger than MF, but it has less usage. MF can jump again and again to restart spamming missiles, while MD can't do that. More important, MF is extreme at hiding, and it's small size allow avoiding armor. Nevertheless, MF can spawn at gate at unlimited time, and who cares of a death in MF?

Same fact to bomber fri. With the new bomber fri, people will forget bomber cruiser and bomber dread.

Of course the new fri encourage people to USE-ALL-SHIPS, rather than station and dread, so I support the new fris. Player who doesn't know how to deal with MF or HF is not deserved to fly dread.

On 2010-06-29 02:46, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote:
one thing all these noob UGTO keep forgetting is. THESE ARE UPDATES! The next class in line is the dessys, then cruisers and so on and so forth. If you think the MF is OP now, just wait till the dreads get done, stations won't stand a chance until there turn comes around. I have said that time and time again, and it falls of deaf ears every time. So what if the MF is OP now, sommin better will be coming along to one up it.

The MF has a lot of ECM on it so that it CAN hide, otherwise if a dread or station so much as looked at it funny, it would blow up. I have seen harrier frigates used against my SS/SCB, in pairs at the most, I can kick on all my ECCM/scanner and pick them up on sensors 1500gu out, or more if they are shooting. Its not much but you CAN shoot back at them. If they are in a group of 3+ then just move away or get a scout and find them.

On 2010-06-29 03:36, Jim Starluck wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-06-29 02:46, Starcommand of ICC *XO* wrote: one thing all these noob UGTO keep forgetting is. THESE ARE UPDATES! The next class in line is the dessys, then cruisers and so on and so forth. If you think the MF is OP now, just wait till the dreads get done, stations won't stand a chance until there turn comes around. I have said that time and time again, and it falls of deaf ears every time. So what if the MF is OP now, sommin better will be coming along to one up it.

Precisely.

Drafell and I are already working on the Destroyer layouts. There are a few issues we need to tackle; Draf's making nifty new missiles for one of the K'luth destroyers, and we need to make sure that the upgunned Escort and Picket destroyers don't become the ultimate close-range beamboats and wind up supplanting the actual combat destroyers, as they've done in the past

Rest assured, though, that the gap between the introduction of Frigates and Destroyers should be a lot shorter than the one between Scouts and Frigates.

Quote:

The MF has a lot of ECM on it so that it CAN hide, otherwise if a dread or station so much as looked at it funny, it would blow up. I have seen harrier frigates used against my SS/SCB, in pairs at the most, I can kick on all my ECCM/scanner and pick them up on sensors 1500gu out, or more if they are shooting. Its not much but you CAN shoot back at them. If they are in a group of 3+ then just move away or get a scout and find them.

Yes, exactly this. The Missile frigate's defense, first and foremost, is its ECM. If an enemy ship gets into attack range they can see it visually, and it is practically defenseless at that distance. A close-combat Frigate, Destroyer or Cruiser can make short work of them; a Dread can pretty much blow them out of the sky in a single alpha-strike. Incidentally, for this reason I'm going to change the Harrier to carry ECM by default, as it is wildly more successful in this configuration, and my policy when designing ships is that they should be effective in their default configuration, rather than requiring modding before they can be used well.

Also, the upcoming changes to the Sparrow Missiles (which you can preview in the Beta server) will change the behavior of the Missile and Harrier frigates substantially. They drain a lot more power now, which also means the signature they add to the ship when recharging is significantly higher. Each missile now adds 1.0 signature, meaning the ship's total signature jumps up by 4.0 when it fires a full salvo. At even one-half max speed their ECM can just barely mask this, and the ship loses energy steadily. A single enemy ship running ECCM will reveal it, and if it speeds up to evade attack it loses energy even faster.

Missile and Harrier frigates are very specialized ships. They excel at doing what they are designed to do, which is to attack large ships while evading detection and destruction. They fail miserably at engaging anything about Cruiser-sized or smaller, so employ those ships and you can defeat them much more easily than they defeat Dreadnoughts and Stations.

Oh, and one last note... once they get introduced, the new Combat and Gunboat Destroyers will be the ideal ships for hunting down missile frigates, so the days of their supremacy are numbered no matter what.

On 2010-06-29 04:10, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Sounds good so far. Can't wait for the dessies' and cruisers' turns.


But one thing, Devs... If you eventually upgrade the dreads and stations, I hope it won't bring everything back to square one again.... i.e. the point before the frigs with Sparrows were introduced. After all, you upgrade the small ships and they have an edge over the bigger ones... and once you upgrade the bigger ones, it all evens out again. Back to square one?

A lot of us hope to have dreads and stations be weak in some aspect against smaller ships. It achieves 3 things

- Make people use smaller ships to effectively attack larger ships, instead of Clash of the Titans all of the time
- Forces some ppl to get into smaller ships to counter those smaller ships
- Gives n00bs a chance against higher ranked players



[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-06-29 04:34 ]

On 2010-06-29 02:26, Jim Starluck wrote:
As I've said before, if people are whining this much over Missile Frigates, just imagine the epic-level QQing when we deploy updated Missile Cruisers.