| Author |
How do I get refund on enhancements that were changed? |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2010-07-14 19:04
I'm just noticing today when looking at my Ganglia that advanced weapon condensers do not fire faster anymore, but instead make weapons use less energy.
That's not what I originally bought condensers for. Weren't condensers and coolers the same effect of faster firing weapons, and one of them was going to be removed from the game because it was redundant?
I don't want a Ganglia that uses less energy, I want one that fires faster, and I used to have that. I'd like my condensers replaced with coolers so it can have the enhancement bonus it originally had. These condensers are completely useless to me now.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2010-07-14 19:45
Condensors are meant to condense the energy usage, Coolers are meant to lower the weapon Cooldown.
Cooldown and energy used are both effected by each-other..
My theory is that coolers use more energy to make the weapon recharge faster, and condensors make the weapon require less energy to recharge, thus also having the same seeming effect of lowering the cooldown.
Not sure what was changed though...
[ This Message was edited by: Continuum *JBud* on 2010-07-14 19:48 ]
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-07-14 19:56
Mr. Sparkle's argument is completely valid. He spent real cash for an item to customize his ship the way he desired. The benefit of those purchases changed (not fine-tuned, but completely changed) their function.
I realize that technically if he uses less energy each shot, then he can fire longer. However, he doesn't combat longevity. He wants a high DPS, which is what he purchased.
I should think it fair for the dev team to provide proper compensation for people that have been effected by the change.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2010-07-14 20:54
It's a Ganglia - if you're having energy problems in a Ganglia you need to get the hell outa dodge 
/While you're at it - fix the text descripts on Defense Power & Defense Upgrades 
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Starcommander
Marshal
Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
| Posted: 2010-07-14 21:23
This is about the 3rd time they have redone the descriptions, and every time have failed epically.
Really they should say this.
Weapon/Beam Multiplexer:
Increase Projectile/Beam Damage by X%
Weapon/Beam Cooler:
Decrease Projectile/Beam Recharge Rate by X%
Weapon/Beam Condenser:
Decrease Projectile/Beam Energy Cost by X%
Defense Power:
Increase Armor/Shield Regen rate by X%
Defense Upgrade:
Increase Armor/Shield HP by X%
Those seem to be the ones that confuse people the most, and have had the worst descriptions. Fixing them to those should clear up the confusion.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-07-14 21:49
Quote:
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On 2010-07-14 19:04, MrSparkle wrote:
I'm just noticing today when looking at my Ganglia that advanced weapon condensers do not fire faster anymore, but instead make weapons use less energy.
That's not what I originally bought condensers for. Weren't condensers and coolers the same effect of faster firing weapons, and one of them was going to be removed from the game because it was redundant?
I don't want a Ganglia that uses less energy, I want one that fires faster, and I used to have that. I'd like my condensers replaced with coolers so it can have the enhancement bonus it originally had. These condensers are completely useless to me now.
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They don't make it use less energy, it makes it use more thus charges the beam weapon faster.. so condensers do increase the firing rate.
If not, then it's a bug and will be fixed.
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-07-14 22:02
[edit]Looks like F beat me to it.[/edit]
I have no say over compensation. I am commenting here as a developer.
Quote:
| On 2010-07-14 19:04, MrSparkle wrote:
make weapons use less energy.
faster firing weapons,
I don't want a Ganglia that uses less energy, I want one that fires faster. |
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while you are right let me explain a bit.
A gadget requires a certain amount of energy to be Re-charged and it will charge at a certain rate. Knowing both these numbers we can determen the re-charge time..
(all given numbers are examples and not real numbers)
A disruptor requires 200 points of energy to re-charge and it charges at 50 energy per second. A disruptor therefor will re-charge itself in 4 seconds.
Our example cooler will decrease weapons recharge by 10%. the disruptor will now charge at 55 energy persecond. the new recharge time will be 3.6 seconds
Our example condenser will decrease energy usage by 10%. the disruptor will now require 180 energy. the new recharte time will be 3.6 seconds.
So wich one fires faster?
Class dismissed.
E.
[ This Message was edited by: Eledore Massis [R33] on 2010-07-14 22:03 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-14 22:45
Oh wait they're both still the same effect of faster recharge? It's only the description that's changed?
If that's the case then they still both do exactly the same thing, only their descriptions are deceptive.
I had thought energy usage was independent of recharge rate, so you could have a weapon that used almost no energy but recharged real slow, or one that used a ton and recharged fast, which would also mean that decreasing a weapon's energy usage would have no effect on recharge.
I have no real way of testing whether my Ganglia fires faster than a stock Ganglia. All I know is the descriptions now suggest that coolers do what my condensers used to do, and my (admittely lousy) memory tells me either condensers or coolers were at one point going to be removed because of redundancy.
EDIT: Actually yes I do have a way. I have 1 free ship slot. Let me see what's up...
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2010-07-14 22:46 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-14 23:01
I stand corrected guys. My condensers do increase firing rate by a good second or so on my cannons compared to a stock Ganglia.
It leads me now to the old question from last time: Why do both enhancements do the same thing, only in different ways? Why would anyone want to use coolers over condensers, unless coolers also decrease energy usage? And if they do, what the heck's the point of having them both ingame?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-07-15 04:05
what about a simple "remove all enhancements" for a selected ship, and put em back into your garage-cargo ?
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-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2010-07-15 06:57
F and other Dev's
Since we are now spending money for enhancments I think a option to remove them from the ships or sell them back to the system at say half the price we bought them is in order.
With the inplace limits of ships you can have in your garage you are effectly forcing people to throw money away if they want to mod more ships.
I think you need to double the size of the garage or at least when a ship is deleted sometype of refund for the credits paid to enhance that ship. I personally would rather the 2nd option.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2010-07-15 10:09
Beam condenser: +X% beam energy and +Y% beam damage.
I'd love to see weapon condenser also has the same effect: +X% projectile energy and +Y% projectile damage.
That would solve the question about the difference between condenser and cooler.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-07-15 10:25
Quote:
|
On 2010-07-14 23:01, MrSparkle wrote:
I stand corrected guys. My condensers do increase firing rate by a good second or so on my cannons compared to a stock Ganglia.
It leads me now to the old question from last time: Why do both enhancements do the same thing, only in different ways? Why would anyone want to use coolers over condensers, unless coolers also decrease energy usage? And if they do, what the heck's the point of having them both ingame?
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It was a mistake made by the original implementer of the enhancements... he didn't understand that the energy usage and cool-down rates were interlocked with each other, so he created separate categories one for energy the other for cool-down...
I removed the cool-down for beams category, once I did condensers and coolers for beams became identical... I try to make them a bit different by reducing the energy boost but adding additional damage to the condenser (I think).
-F
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2010-07-15 10:33
Quote:
| On 2010-07-14 23:01, MrSparkle wrote:
It leads me now to the old question from last time: Why do both enhancements do the same thing, only in different ways? Why would anyone want to use coolers over condensers, unless coolers also decrease energy usage? And if they do, what the heck's the point of having them both ingame? |
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I still have trouble keeping them apart.
While both increase the fire rate of the weapons, they offer them in different ways..
A cooler will increase the energy usage, meaning your Energy reserve drains faster. you still will only get (e.g.) 7 Alpha's of before having your energy completely drained.
This is useful if you have enough spare energy or are a optimized energy generation (in my view UGTO)
A condenser will decrease the energy usage, meaning the recharge uses less energy. instead of those (e.g.) 7 alpha's you get off 8 before you run out.
This is useful if you don't have extra energy generators or have other systems that drain constantly (ICC shields & luth cloak)
So it all depends on what you are flying to what you pick.
If you absolutely only pick them for Faster Firing weapons, then there is no difference, but look at your energy management, you will have to seriously think which one you would would want.
E.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-07-15 11:09
(EDIT: I'm talking about weapon condensers here. I haven't even looked at beam condensers, but apparently they're different.)
That's why I chose condensers as Kluth. I want the faster firing rate most of all, but I figured I might as well get some better energy out of it too.
Both increase fire rate (which for me is the important advantage to them), but condensers offer the additional advantage of reduced energy usage while coolers offer no additional advantage. Why would you use coolers? At the most, you don't care about energy and so coolers are just fine. But you might as well reduce their energy usage at the same time.
And if weapon condensers are somehow changed in the future and their increased rate of fire is reduced, I'd like a refund  Condenser and cooler descriptions ingame have changed but not their functions, yet. I thought they were changed a while ago and their descriptions updated to reflect that but I was wrong.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2010-07-15 11:11 ]
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