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Revolutionary Cloak |
Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-08-25 03:06  
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On 2010-08-14 09:06, Lonectzn wrote:
The recharge would have to be quick. Enough damage can actually break the cloak before the ship is fully cloaked, and even after that blind firing may do the same.
Consider these situations:
A single K'luth is cloaked, cloak strength at 100%. K'luth deactivates cloak (module deactivates right away but has delay before can fire), fires once, cloaks again without being hit, just the same as current system.
A K'luth ship is tracked down, decloaked and dictored by some UGTO. Cloak module is deactivated and begins recharging while the K'luth takes fire. The K'luth must survive at least until cloak recharges.
Five K'luth engage five UGTO. UGTO focus on the lead dreadnought. More UGTO enter and the K'luth decide to break off. The four not under fire are able to cloak without issue, the one under fire decides not to, as it would be broken before they fully cloak. The K'luth under fire swings around a planet, buying a few seconds without being hit - and engages the cloak. The UGTO commence blind firing and tracking.
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Your idea seems sound.
I got 2 questions:
1. So you mean that when the cloak is deactivated, any hits taken will not damage to cloak?
2. When cloaked, and the ship is hit, does the armor and hull take damage? I mean... yes the cloak works like a shield, but it really isn't physically protecting the ship from damage right?
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Lark of Serenity Grand Admiral Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002 Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-08-25 07:49  
A) there isnt really a pinging problem
B) this is an interesting idea, but part of the current problem is that kluth are undetectable when moving into position (hence stations getting blown up in the middle of planet clusters, or 4 dreads killing a station at 100% in a matter of seconds). this doesnt improve that, it makes it worse. kluths current first strike capability is what breaks the game.
C) it also offers less incentive for kluth to fly smaller ships. no use for ECM means no use for frigates, etc.
i do like the concept, but it doesn't fit into the game as it currently exists without a LOT of other work being done.
_________________ Admiral Larky, The Wolf
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henry700 Vice Admiral
Joined: July 08, 2010 Posts: 47
| Posted: 2010-08-25 18:29  
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On 2010-08-14 04:01, Lonectzn wrote:
I was just reading the K'luth feedback thread, and read about the proposal to introduce a cloaking timer. This actually gave me an idea about how the cloak could be balanced, within current game mechanics. Basically we change the cloak into a shield. When active, the ship is cloaked and the shield is active. Since the cloak is effectively a shield it will be the outer armour. If the ship gets hit it loses strength, and if it reaches zero the cloak turns off. The shield strength is weak, but with a fast recharge. The ship can't engage the cloak again until it reaches 100% (or 50%, however it is chosen).
This does give the K'luth ship slightly better defences when cloaked, however this is completely made up for by the fact that ICC and UGTO can now effectively strip a K'luth of their cloak. The cloak basically becomes a first strike tool, and not so much a godlike escape button. You can still cloak in combat (damage won't drain the shield when cloak is inactive, as with normal shields), but you need to make sure you're not taking too much fire when you do.
The main benefit is that you are able, if you wish, to safely decouple cloaking from signature mechanics (make cloak time dependant only on mass not sig, stopping eccm pinging and sensor plat farms) and make other changes. You could turn beacons into area of effect EMP bombs which drain the cloak. Add a sensor class module (swappable with eccm) that fires a smaller, weaker version of the same charge.
Cloaking right now ties too strongly into signature, it's very messy and not very easy to change. This would give far more flexibility for devs to adjust how cloaks are used in combat and outside it. It would be a big change to how K'luth would play - less safe flying alone, not able to fly into enemies without caution. They'd be forced like ICC and UGTO to fly together, but would have a highly strengthened first strike ability. It would also be more intuitive - if star trek taught us anything, it was that cloaks can be disabled from concentrated fire.
Since it's tied to a shield strength, you could just make it weaker for a particular ship if you feel it's too strong. Or maybe make some ships have much stronger cloaks, make something like the Parasite more useful. It will address the biggest complaint about the K'luth - that their cloak is too good an escape tool, not just for first strikes.
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Solution to one of the worst darkspace problems, and best idea for mechanism tweaks ever.
YOU ARE A GENIOUS
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AP0LLYON Chief Marshal
Joined: April 13, 2010 Posts: 103 From: Out In Space
| Posted: 2010-08-25 18:49  
I like that idea!!!
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0mni Grand Admiral
Joined: March 09, 2004 Posts: 288 From: Canada, Lived around the world.
| Posted: 2010-08-25 20:18  
My biggest problem is ECCM ping, so this is a good idea
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*FTL*Soulless Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010 Posts: 787 From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2010-08-25 20:53  
Why. With this Idea you take away the only sort of counter the humans hold against luth cloak which is ECCM ping. [ This Message was edited by: soulless93 on 2010-08-25 21:10 ]
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Lark of Serenity Grand Admiral Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002 Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-08-25 21:22  
basically, with this the only way for humans to ever know a kluth is near is to be constantly firing blindly in every direction and hope they succeed in destroying this outer shield level.
No.
_________________ Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Reznor Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 316
| Posted: 2010-08-25 22:57  
Add a scout only cloak detector: Problem solved.
Kluth become detectable when the scout uses this certain (possibly high cooldown?) device. But then we still all moan because noone wants to get out of dreads and into a scout .
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*FTL*Soulless Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010 Posts: 787 From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2010-08-26 01:45  
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On 2010-08-25 22:57, Reznor wrote:
Add a scout only cloak detector: Problem solved.
Kluth become detectable when the scout uses this certain (possibly high cooldown?) device. But then we still all moan because noone wants to get out of dreads and into a scout .
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problem is only solved untill a krill uncloaks next to that scout.......
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Marius Falix Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010 Posts: 268 From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-08-26 04:55  
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On 2010-08-25 22:57, Reznor wrote:
Add a scout only cloak detector: Problem solved.
Kluth become detectable when the scout uses this certain (possibly high cooldown?) device. But then we still all moan because noone wants to get out of dreads and into a scout .
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logicly the device woukd be attached to every ship so they do not get slaughtered.
call me crazy but id swap a cannon or 2 (missiles id prefer) on my CD for a luth decloak gadget, wouldnt you?
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Iwancoppa Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008 Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-08-26 15:49  
To all you guys who are whinging about not being able to detect the luth...
you do realise that once the decloak they may not even live to run away if their cloak gets shot off.
This is a better cloak system wich gives them the first strike(in most cases) but difficulty getting away.....
the only thing im worried about is using JD instead of cloak.
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Vice Admiral Josh Knight Vice Admiral
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 56
| Posted: 2010-08-26 17:23  
Yep i like this idea alot.
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Lark of Serenity Grand Admiral Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002 Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2010-08-26 17:37  
okay...
so at the moment 4 kluth dreads can destroy an LS in a matter of seconds, thats with the limited ability to detect them inbound as is.
so the proposed change would give them even more first strike capability, as you just mentioned lulzy.
this doesnt solve any problems, it exacerbates existing ones.
again, i do like the premise, but it would mean very heavily changing the game and making kluth totally different. a first strike faction cannot have the firepower the kluth do. theres a very big difference between hit and run and first strike
_________________ Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Faustus Marshal Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001 Posts: 2748 From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2010-08-26 17:46  
Just letting you guys know that I'm considering this ideal... I need to discuss this with the other developers to trying to get a handle on the ups and downs of this type of cloaking system.
-F
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-08-26 19:03  
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On 2010-08-26 17:37, Lark of Serenity wrote:
okay...
so at the moment 4 kluth dreads can destroy an LS in a matter of seconds, thats with the limited ability to detect them inbound as is.
so the proposed change would give them even more first strike capability, as you just mentioned lulzy.
this doesnt solve any problems, it exacerbates existing ones.
again, i do like the premise, but it would mean very heavily changing the game and making kluth totally different. a first strike faction cannot have the firepower the kluth do. theres a very big difference between hit and run and first strike
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Isn't that what hit n run is abt? First strike, do damage, then bug out?
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