| Author |
Proposed Planetary Changes |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2010-09-14 20:06
Fore-note:
All details mentioned in this topic are not set in stone and can and will most likely be changed in the future based on technical limitation, implementation and load levels.
I have decided personally to post this as to not keep you all in the dark about the proposed changes that we keep going on about. I hope you enjoy the read below.
The way in which players interact with planets is changing drastically. The general thought is that planets should be much more important as a resource in the universe and to players seeing as they’re one of the main objectives in the game. As they are now, they are not where I personally would like to see them and so I set out to design a planetary system in which replaces the current one we have. The basis being that it needs to be team-based, fun, and intuitive.
The first thing to look at was the capturing mechanic. I felt it was too simple in the way that even though many players can aid in the ‘capturing’ of a planet (through attacking defenders, putting infantry on the surface, or bombing), only one person gets the prestige for the actual capture. So, we need to move this into a more group-reward system. But how are we going to do this?
DarkSpace players who play other games may be familiar with ‘capture the point’ based objective games, in which a group of players can stay on the point to capture it, and all of them get points. This is exactly the type of system we are going to be moving onto with the new planetary system.
To describe this system briefly, when a player gets into the broadcast area of a planet (yet to be decided) they are added into a faction table that tallies up how much affect your faction has on that planet. If there are many, many defenders around a planet, they will effectively be aiding the planet in its strength meaning you will need to drive some of the defenders off before your attack force starts to have an effect on the planets allegiance.
However, if the attackers outweigh the defenders, you will start to notice a drop in the planets allegiance. The planet will have some base preference towards its current faction, although this will drop off the lower the allegiance gets, meaning a planet that is at zero allegiance can easy go one way or the other depending on the size of the defending or attacking party as it has no real base allegiance.
After a faction has captured a planet completely (when the allegiance goes above a certain amount after effectively becoming yours), the planet will dish out prestige to those who have aided in the capturing of the planet based on certain aspects (length of the fight, what was on the planet, etc), defending players could also get a portion of the prestige the winners get (very low percentage).
Infantry will act as an aid to allegiance, giving the planet a base ‘regen’ if you will. It would be possible for a large fleet to capture a planet without dropping infantry, although a fleet would preferably want to lower the amount of allegiance the infantry will give the planet. So, no more tranny rushes instantly capping the planet!
This system allows for a much tighter control of how planets get captured, and also allows us to put a time on how long we want planets fought over. Ideally players were meant to be fighting over a few planets per day, with systems gradually being taken over - not the way we are currently able to capture a system in an hour or so. This will see a shift back into this style of play, with players hopefully having epic battles over a handful of planets per day.
Buildings can also be nicely tied into this system. Certain structures can go inactive at a certain percentage of the capture. For example, you may find that your shipyard is unable to produce stations after the allegiance drops below 80%, or your planet will become blockaded at 40% allegiance; anything is possible.
On the point of buildings, the one drawback of this system is that bombing will become a much more linear activity. The offset is that it will become more of a support role, and a player will feel much more a part of the fleet rather than everyone else is doing the work whilst you stack bombs from x gu away; you will be right in the thick of it with everyone else! And with that said, I can tell you that we aim to make bombing the test-base we use for our roll-based systems. What does this mean though?
Well, for one, your bombs will no-longer act like a missile or such. When you launch your bomb and attack the planet, the bomb will take a certain amount of parameters (signature, etc) and ‘roll’ against the planets defence value. Essentially, when you launch your bomb, it’s already predetermined if it will hit the planet or not. If the bomb fails the roll, the bomb will be shot down by the planets point defence. However, if the bomb succeeds in the roll, it will hit the planet, lower population, etc, but also aid in the capturing of the planet as allegiance will drop when a bomb hits the planet. A player can also select a structure to attack, lowering the utility the planet has to offer, or even attack a defence structure, lowering the value the bombs have to roll against as well as lowering the defences.
Eventually, I’d like to move planets over to a more template-based defence structure. What this means is that EVERY planet will be able to defend itself by default. Each planet will be kitted out with general weak defence points that it can shoot out of, and defend itself with. You can ‘customise’ the planet defences by building different defence structures (ie, increase its ability to defend itself from bombs by building a structure that increases beam cycle times). Each defence structure you place on the planet will increase its defence value (the amount the bombs have to ‘roll’ against).
This is the general idea behind the new planetary capture system. We’ve been pretty secretive of it up until now due to the fact that it hasn’t been discussed at length, and a few technical decisions have yet to be decided. However what we are certain of is the fact that at some point, the planetary system will become a capture the point based exercise.
Please bare in mind that this information could change in the future, and much of what you read above could be changed. This is just my design for the new system of which I have been put in-charge of. Exact values are yet to be decided or set in stone.
Hope you enjoyed,
- Jack
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-09-14 20:12 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:05
only thing i got to add is Capture the point is AKA King of the hill. Other than that great job and lookin foward to seeing this in game
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:09
will anyone in the capture radius get pres?
like some random bored leecher get a scout and skims rim of capture zone?
thats probably the only concern i have, other than that great job 
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Challenger
Marshal
Joined: March 28, 2002
Posts: 886
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:13
How long will it take to create in Beta so it can be tested out. It sounds interesting to me and a lot like another game that I used to play. This system will work but will need some fine tuning for the balance of it all.
From the look of things all planets will be equal but not all ships are equal in reguards to bombing. If each bomb makes a "roll" then it should all be a even playing field.
So if this is the case we should look into adding to the role of the transport ships. It does not appear they will be needed as much with a system like this in place. Just something to think about.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:14
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On 2010-09-14 21:09, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
will anyone in the capture radius get pres?
like some random bored leecher get a scout and skims rim of capture zone?
thats probably the only concern i have, other than that great job
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Time in zone gets put into a table.
At the end of the capture phase, the planet basicaly takes the % of that time compared to the time the planet was in the capture phase, and hands out the amount of prestige awarded based on that.
So if a planet was being faught over for 60 minutes, and someone was aiding that capture for 6 minutes, that player gets 10% of the prestige total. If all players were there for 60 minutes, then all players get 100%.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:16
The first thing that comes to mind:
With such a difference in bombing, capping, and building....how does this stack up or effect our current stat lines in those areas? Will they be deleted, ignored, or just somehow added to using the proposed system?
The second thing that comes to mind:
K'Luth still could basically care less if they have a single rock, even under those changes, so long as they already have their ships spawned. How do you make them matter to us, or can it even be done? As it is, we only get one to start a fight, and if we have a fight, we couldnt care less about them.
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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:20
How would the roll-based bombing be affected by defenders sitting their with beam weapons ready to shoot down bombs?
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:25
God spoke to me yesterday. He said i have 2 weeks (TM) life time. Hope this development wont take longer than it.
[ This Message was edited by: Pakhos[+R] on 2010-09-14 21:25 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:30
Quote:
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On 2010-09-14 21:16, Azreal wrote:
The first thing that comes to mind:
With such a difference in bombing, capping, and building....how does this stack up or effect our current stat lines in those areas? Will they be deleted, ignored, or just somehow added to using the proposed system?
The second thing that comes to mind:
K'Luth still could basically care less if they have a single rock, even under those changes, so long as they already have their ships spawned. How do you make them matter to us, or can it even be done? As it is, we only get one to start a fight, and if we have a fight, we couldnt care less about them.
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We'll most likely review prestige in those areas when we change them, as it's relatively simple to make changes in those catagories. Building is done via time spent building and I would really like to go over and review structure hitpoints when we edventually do this so we can tie it in nicely with the changes and make them relative.
But current stats won't be changed, we can simply change the mechanics that award the prestige.
As far as K'luth comes to mind, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want a planet. I understand that there's no incentive to really capture a planet, but this is just the framework on which hopefully another system will be based on. To shed some light on that, at a point when I was mulling over planet system designs in my head and verbally over developer channels, myself, Drafell and other developers talked about system/server-wide bonuses that get applied based on planets owned and such.
For example, for a limited time a planet may give out a production bonus, creating a hotspot that players will want to rush to and take. Battle ensues, victor gets the production bonus for x days or whatever. This can also go for prestige bonuses, or anything like that. I'm not really for applying bonuses to damage and defences, but more rewards for things, or bonuses that aid in infastructure and such, instead of directly affecting the balance of combat.
Once we have the planets done, we can start working on rewards and infastructure based on the framework set by the work on planets. However, the bonuses and such are a very long way off and haven't even begun being documented or designed yet. I'd like to get the framework set and done before any of that gets worked on.
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On 2010-09-14 21:20, Antra wrote:
How would the roll-based bombing be affected by defenders sitting their with beam weapons ready to shoot down bombs?
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Since the bomber will be in the thick of it, I think the very fact that it's a high-priority target makes it difficult enough, let alone including defence of ships in the area in the roll. There's also the technical side of it, for example, scanning for ships in the area and what beams are on point defence everytime a bomb is launched would be stupidly resource intensive, and we absolutely do not want that. But we shall see.
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On 2010-09-14 21:25, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
God spoke to me yesterday. He said i have 2 weeks (TM) life time. Hope this development wont take longer than it.
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Unfortunately this will not be done in two weeks. We haven't started implimenting it yet, and there are things yet to be finished. Mainly fighter AI needs to be done so Jim can continue working on ship layouts, and some other projects that need to be finished. Once those are done however, planets are next on the list of things. Once I get word from Faustus on where he's at, I'll let you guys know.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash on 2010-09-14 21:35 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-09-14 21:55
Sounds OK so far.
Just some minor questions.
1. Will we have a CTF timer bar to indicate the capture progress? And if so, will the attacking, defending, or both faction see it?
2. Since planetary bombardment, is now roll based, why don't we remove bombs and substitute them with missiles? This is probably just cosmetic or superflous, but I just think it'll prolly look better since skill is now more or less removed from this particular equation anyway. 
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On 2010-09-14 21:30, BackSlash wrote:
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On 2010-09-14 21:20, Antra wrote:
How would the roll-based bombing be affected by defenders sitting their with beam weapons ready to shoot down bombs?
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Since the bomber will be in the thick of it, I think the very fact that it's a high-priority target makes it difficult enough, let alone including defence of ships in the area in the roll. There's also the technical side of it, for example, scanning for ships in the area and what beams are on point defence everytime a bomb is launched would be stupidly resource intensive, and we absolutely do not want that. But we shall see.
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Would I be correct to say that the roll base interaction between bomb and planet will be isolated from any defending ships' PDs?
It would make sense, instead of trying to factoring them in into the calculations and adding to the server load. So if there are ships there, they will be subject to the planetary roll AND ships' PD. To put it succintly... in most probability bombs or missiles won't get through.
So kindly drive the defenders off before you commence the attack.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-09-14 22:06 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2010-09-14 22:49
Beats the unholy crap out of the current planetary capture system at any rate.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2010-09-15 03:32
Quote:
| As far as K'luth comes to mind, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want a planet. |
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I'm not sure this is exactly what Azreal was getting at, but the fact of the matter is that once you spawn a ship, it never really goes away -- it just needs repairing. Thus, you really only need your faction to own a planet for about two minutes after each time you gain rank (assuming you have new ships you want to spawn), otherwise you have everything you need. Since ships regen in garages now, technically you don't even need a planet to be repaired, though this obviously comes at the cost of having to not play for 24 hours after having your ships destroyed.
But with a repair ship and AHR, Kluth especially don't really even need rally/repair points...
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2010-09-15 03:49
well let's see.....
bombing skill eliminated
planet hugging attenuated
tranny rushing eliminated
I still prefer the old 32 cap on planet for inf.You want to cap it?Fine Bomb em off.roll based bombing sounds like its gonna be 483 all over again in that no skill involved.
planet hugging will increase dramatically possibly.
Tranny rushing elinated (best part of all the changes I read about so far)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-09-15 04:02
I just hope that the roll based calculations are implemented properly.
If I line up 8 bombers to attack a planet and they cloud bomb simultaneously, I expect to see the planet's def overwhelmed by the sheer number of projectiles sent at it.
i.e. 14 def buildings with 8 x 4 x 5 bombs or missiles flying at it. It won't stand a chance in hell to take out even 5% of the bombs being lobbed at it.
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Mint Ice Cream[+R]
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 05, 2009
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2010-09-15 04:17
Quote:
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On 2010-09-15 04:02, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
I just hope that the roll based calculations are implemented properly.
If I line up 8 bombers to attack a planet and they cloud bomb simultaneously, I expect to see the planet's def overwhelmed by the sheer number of projectiles sent at it.
i.e. 14 def buildings with 8 x 4 x 5 bombs or missiles flying at it. It won't stand a chance in hell to take out even 5% of the bombs being lobbed at it.
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so... what your point ._.???a proboscis and a clavate now can easily overwhelm 4 tier 2 anti-bombardment bases
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planet hugging will increase dramatically possibly
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i don't think it will since defender (who gonna hug) won't be able to predict what planet the attacker will try to capt.
[ This Message was edited by: Mint Ice Cream[+R] on 2010-09-15 06:27 ]
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