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 Author Games too easy?2 weeks to be in the best ships?
deathblave
Marshal

Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 268
Posted: 2010-11-05 15:33   
it took me 3 years to get ga rank i started in the 483 era and stayed since
but when 1.5 came i was a adimral and went to ga quickly afteir 1.5 came at im almost a marshel now pres gain in this version is high yeas but the loss i low in 483 loseing a station hurt up the pres loss in accords to the gain
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral

Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
Posted: 2010-11-05 16:45   
Quote:

On 2010-11-05 15:33, deathblave*OPS* wrote:
it took me 3 years to get ga rank i started in the 483 era and stayed since
but when 1.5 came i was a adimral and went to ga quickly afteir 1.5 came at im almost a marshel now pres gain in this version is high yeas but the loss i low in 483 loseing a station hurt up the pres loss in accords to the gain





No. upping pres loss will be counter productive.

people wont want to fight for fear of loosing a ship and lots of pres.
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral

Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
Posted: 2010-11-06 14:51   
the reason why there so many station and dreads is the fact there is no fear of pres lost. you rearley saw station and dreads back then cause of it. i belive if you want to cut down on dread and station how about not nerfing ships upping this ships just bring back the pres lost for the ships and the pres gain.
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deathblave
Marshal

Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 268
Posted: 2010-11-06 15:07   
no poeple wont risk there station cause the pres lose whould be higher.
In 483 u seen a station backed by 3-4 dreads and the rest was cruiser class and below not like it is now 4 stations backed by 6 dreads and a few small class
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
Posted: 2010-11-06 16:18   
Quote:

On 2010-11-06 15:07, deathblave wrote:
no poeple wont risk there station cause the pres lose whould be higher.
In 483 u seen a station backed by 3-4 dreads and the rest was cruiser class and below not like it is now 4 stations backed by 6 dreads and a few small class




In .483 a scout could kill anything.

They need to take it back abit and weaken ALL ships or give them more obvious weaknesses while keeping destroyers and cruisers at their current state. It's how it was in the better versions.

Make it to where a great cruiser pilot could hold off a single dread or station and possibly kill it if the other pilot wasn't that good.

And press loss does need to be upped alittle. There needs to be some scare of losing a dread or station in a fight, isntead of now where you can pull a station out and lose it every five minutes and still make more prestige then you lose.
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Subtilizer
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light


Joined: February 20, 2010
Posts: 122
Posted: 2010-11-07 06:28   
this .483 version everyone refers to can anyone say any of the main differances between now and then ? wasnt there then the information would be helpful.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2010-11-07 06:48   
Quote:

On 2010-11-07 06:28, Chaoticstorm wrote:
this .483 version everyone refers to can anyone say any of the main differances between now and then ? wasnt there then the information would be helpful.



In .483 prestige loss was very high. Stations were worth about 1k.

However, Stations and Dreadnaughts were pretty worthless compared to smaller ships.

That pretty much sums it up. Small ships (especially escort/picket destroyers) were the best because cannons shot very far and did solid damage. And because they did just as much damage as dreads and stations.. well you see the problem.

Now, small ships lean towards sucking alone but are actually quite good if they are in numbers. Big ships like Dreads and Stations are the best ships to fly and prestige loss is much lower than it was then. Also, combat prestige is also much easier to get.

So the only change that really needs to be made is make prestige harder to get the higher ranked you get. Sounds pretty fair to me. The best way to do it is to ramp prestige loss way back up again for Dreads and Stations, but I still think it would be better baased on rank rather than ship type. A GA that dies in a Dread should be held more accountable than a Vice Admiral.




-Ent
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar


Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
Posted: 2010-11-07 07:29   
I have to agree with ent with the pres loss , it should be painfull to loose a station pres wise, therefore the question of wether it is "safe" to pull one into combat becomes a tactical decision not just the norm , also how about if you die in a station , you loose the right to fly one for a short time period , if you survive in your dread for that time you regain your rights to fly a station? , if you die in your dread you again loose the privilage to fly that class etc etc.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2010-11-07 08:37   
there isnt anything wrong with pres lost when you cut back on the pres gained. Cut both at the same time and its the same as cutting your wrists.

As it is now, after the last patch, I find that I actually only gain a few pts after an engagement where I damage the enemy as much as he damages me. That is just about right.

Keep in mind, that as your ship takes on damage period, you begin to lose points. So if you can kill an enemy faster than he kills/damages you, you will AND SHOULD get more pts, because you haven't taken on as much damage.

If the idea is, that I get 20 pts forward after myself and 2 others vaporize an enemy, then please say so now. I'll start looking for a new game.....
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DarkCloudd
Grand Admiral

Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 85
From: Iowa
Posted: 2010-11-07 09:46   
I think what we should be looking/talking about is net prestige gain. I dont have a problem with prestige loss hurting for a dread/station but it shouldnt exceed the net prestige gain of a given situation, especially if its a 1v1 engagement. If I engage an enemy dread in mine and manage to get a kill I should get more prestige than I would lose if I got jumped as I made the killing shot and got destroyed myself. If you make the net prestige into a loss for a given engagement then the MV would most likely become a wasteland because the vets that can fly dreads/stations will either be planet hugging or not even log on.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2010-11-07 10:15   
Quote:

On 2010-11-07 09:46, Fatal DarkCloudd *COM* wrote:
I think what we should be looking/talking about is net prestige gain. I dont have a problem with prestige loss hurting for a dread/station but it shouldnt exceed the net prestige gain of a given situation, especially if its a 1v1 engagement. If I engage an enemy dread in mine and manage to get a kill I should get more prestige than I would lose if I got jumped as I made the killing shot and got destroyed myself. If you make the net prestige into a loss for a given engagement then the MV would most likely become a wasteland because the vets that can fly dreads/stations will either be planet hugging or not even log on.



No, you shouldn't. Threre are always risks. If you chose to stick around long enough to be killed, or you entered a situation where you got ambushed, then you got what you deserved.

The point is: Darkspace isn't a single player game. Its a multiplayer game. playing as a fleet is far more safe than playing by yourself. You only gain what you earn, and you only lose what you deserve to lose. If you weigh the odds and decide to risk a high presitge loss ship in a trivial situation, then whose fault is that?

The game doesn't require you to use big ships: Just because you have the rank for something doesn't mean it must be flown. If there is a definite risk to flying a large ship then you don't have to reduce prestige gain any further. The prestige gain rate after the last patch is fine, I don't know how Az can say its that bad. I gained an easy 500 prestige just yesterday in a single short battle.

Keep the prestige gain rate the same as it is now, and up the loss rate. That should even everything out, and retroactively in its own way punish the people who have obviously ranked up too fast for their skill level. For the prestige gain potential in a ship there should be an equal prestige gain loss. I think thats fair. Since if I don't die in a Dreadnaught over a series of a battles in an hour I can gain 1-2k prestige, I think its fair to say that losing around 200 prestige now for dieing is pathetically small.

Personally, I think it would be worth losing older, stubborn players in order to get new ones in a more fair ranking system. At least then it would thin the overpopulated high ranks.





-Ent
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DarkCloudd
Grand Admiral

Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 85
From: Iowa
Posted: 2010-11-07 10:40   
Ent dont insult the player base like that, if it werent for "The older stubborn players", the game would have died out long ago.

A really increased prestige loss hurts the casual player more that the ones that can get a decent amount of play time in per day.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral

Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
Posted: 2010-11-07 11:09   
i agree, combat shouldn't be a net loss for a 1 vs 1 both die. The game will turn into planet hugging and everyone will sound like this in faction chat:
okay lets take fargo
k jd charging, u go 1st
mine is too
5* minutes later
wait i gotta rep my ammo
i gotta sup this armor
i wanna change my weapon
will someone jump
nah im busy here

people will find excuses not to jump in until their whole fleet jumps in
and the person who does jump in will be ganked and lose pres
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral

Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
Posted: 2010-11-07 23:07   
That the whole point, guys listen the pres gain as of now is good not great but good. You can gain a nice amount of pres now and i am fine with this patch for pres gain.
They need to bring back the old pres loss you gain enough pres now to cover what you lose.
As for now newbie come in within couple days you see them in va ships and think there awsome getting a good chunk of pres and no worrys on losing it.

What the point of playing if there no risk envloved with it. And before anyone says something like "well you already got your rank so no worry's for you but what about newbie who want the same ship". Back in .483 i was alll agaist the system we have now on darkspace and the pres gain and losses that we have now.

I actually like have to actually play the game to get the ships i wanted. As of right now the art of what this game use to be is gone. I bet if you even brought back any of the stuff you took away in .483 alot of vets would come back and along with them new players.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral

Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
Posted: 2010-11-08 00:24   
Quote:

On 2010-11-07 23:07, Nova Team wrote:
That the whole point, guys listen the pres gain as of now is good not great but good. You can gain a nice amount of pres now and i am fine with this patch for pres gain.
They need to bring back the old pres loss you gain enough pres now to cover what you lose.
As for now newbie come in within couple days you see them in va ships and think there awsome getting a good chunk of pres and no worrys on losing it.

What the point of playing if there no risk envloved with it. And before anyone says something like "well you already got your rank so no worry's for you but what about newbie who want the same ship". Back in .483 i was alll agaist the system we have now on darkspace and the pres gain and losses that we have now.

I actually like have to actually play the game to get the ships i wanted. As of right now the art of what this game use to be is gone. I bet if you even brought back any of the stuff you took away in .483 alot of vets would come back and along with them new players.


one bad thing would be more people scarred to fly support ships if their pres loss is increased, they already don't give much pres
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