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[FAQ
Forum Index » » English (General) » » MV Jumpgates
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 Author MV Jumpgates
SPaRTaN Z
Chief Marshal

Joined: June 26, 2009
Posts: 235
Posted: 2010-11-01 22:30   
Jumpgates between systems,. the only thing they are are bottlenecks for attacking fleets,..
Suggest to redisgn the MV without jumpgates ATLEAST to the middle systems. Make systems a jumpable distance x2 on your average FTL drive,. . ?
[ This Message was edited by: SPaRTaN Z on 2010-11-02 00:42 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-11-02 00:09   
You're talking abt jumpgates between systems within the server, or jumpgates between servers?


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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse


Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2010-11-02 01:00   
Quote:

Jumpgates between systems, the only thing they are are bottlenecks for attacking fleets.
Suggest to redesign the MV without jumpgates ATLEAST to the middle systems.
Make systems a jumpable distance x2 on your average FTL drive?


By paraphrasing, I'm assuming you want stars not too far from other stars, right?
The only good thing is that it should reduce the size of the server bounded MV. Otherwise, it simply negates the need of jumpgates to a large extent, which are meant to be the primary route of interstellar travel.

Do note, that jump drives are meant to be interplanetary transportation devices. The only ships that can truly do interstellar jumps are scouts, and the retired supply frigate.

The very existence of jumpgates was to bring the pros of fuel-less and instant travel, with cons of centralisation (you can travel only from their exact location), utility limitation (they do not have a purpose other than to transport), and ability limitation (you can only travel to the star connected by the said jumpgate). And ofcourse, with centralisation comes population (their player density is higher than average planet's player density) which makes them perfect victims of camping and bunkering.

Go figure lol.
Edited to make things a little clearer.
[ This Message was edited by: Grand Cannon Boomshot on 2010-11-02 01:01 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Grand Cannon Boomshot on 2010-11-02 05:17 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral

Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
Posted: 2010-11-02 01:31   
lets make 2 devices that share one cool down.
The current drive we will rename interplanetary jump drive.
We will have an interstellar jump drive.
it will be
-faster
-more fuel and refuels from 0 to max about the same time as interplanetary
-a lot more energy hungry
-a much longer cool down
-after jump align it will take 5-15 seconds to charge
-Bigger sig boost when used
-no other weapon or device can be used while charging or aligning

The above makes it ideal for traveling, but bad for escaping or entering combat. Also helps bypass chokepoint gates which serve to promote gatecamping.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-11-02 03:23   
That will defeat the purpose of Jumpgates wouldn't it?

I don't notice any lag when jumping from system to system within the server. There might be a slight delay if you're transiting between servers (eg. Cassiopeia to Sag).

Before we proceed... clarify what we're talking about here.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse


Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2010-11-02 03:57   
Quote:

We will have an interstellar jump drive.
it will be
-more fuel and refuels from 0 to max about the same time as interplanetary
-a lot more energy hungry
-a much longer cool down
-Bigger sig boost when used


You can't have two types of fuel which serve one purpose, work the same way. Why? Because its illogical to waste space on something that, by mere definition and comparison to current FTL drives, requires special machinery which would be much bigger than the military jump drives.

Energy hungry? This thing is highly unlikely to be used on anything but EADs, Krills and Line Stations. And their like.

Signature boost? Can you target anything beyond 5000 gu? NO! Unless this is implemented in DS v1.6, signature boost is like changing color of your red shirt to orange.

How does longer cooldown actually negate the potential exploit of double pointjumping, when it should not be possible? And just incase you're thinking of countermanding this, how will imposing the stellar JD's cooldown on planetary JD not bring an outburst of QQmoar, especially when DS lost quite a lot of playerbase to the Resource cost Ragequit?

Just my 2 dollars.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
Posted: 2010-11-02 12:31   
The purpose of WH's?
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
Posted: 2010-11-02 17:52   
Quote:

On 2010-11-02 01:31, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
lets make 2 devices that share one cool down.
The current drive we will rename interplanetary jump drive.
We will have an interstellar jump drive.
it will be
-faster
-more fuel and refuels from 0 to max about the same time as interplanetary
-a lot more energy hungry
-a much longer cool down
-after jump align it will take 5-15 seconds to charge
-Bigger sig boost when used
-no other weapon or device can be used while charging or aligning

The above makes it ideal for traveling, but bad for escaping or entering combat. Also helps bypass chokepoint gates which serve to promote gatecamping.




sounds like he wants a get outa combat free card
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  Email Borgie
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral

Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
Posted: 2010-11-02 19:06   
@ Kenny
-he wants no jump gate in middle systems because they bottleneck attacking fleets, and thus promote gate camping
-new drives will help fleets to not need to go through gates, and thus the fleet will not be killed by gate campers at the bottle neck

@ Boomshot
-it would be "logical" to have both drives and their fuel if it allows fleets to completely bypass gates. A lot more maneuverability for the fleet
-it is energy hungry, so it won't be used by EADs, ADs, siphons, and stations to jump into combat with it. If used in a noncombat way you should have plenty of energy to spare.
-sig boost matters. Why? If you use this to exit combat you can and will be tracked farther. Second you can give away your and your fleet's position to the enemy.
-The 2 jump drives will share cooldown. That should teach everyone not to use this to enter or escape combat. If you don't like the longer cool down imposed on the interplanetary drive, we aren't forcing you to use it. You could play the whole game without using this interstellar drive or better yet use it in noncombat and not have its longer shared cooldown interfere with your use of the interplanetary drive.

@ Fridge
-wormholes are inaccurate, glitchy, and otherwise not worth it. They also announce your position to everyone in the server looking at the map. Also enemies can use them.

@ Borgie
-umm try to actually READ the post ENTIRELY before trolling?
-If you look at the interstellar jd closely, you will see it is very ill suited to combat escape or entry
-faster injump speed to avoid tracking negated by higher sig, allowing for around the same quality of tracking or better.
-energy hungry. they track you you're dead. Also makes this bad for combat entry
-longer cooldown + shared cooldown=no double jumps. plus this longer cool down again makes it ill suited to entering or exiting combat.
- 5-15 seconds of charging. Yup that will help me get an out of combat freecard. I mean i love charging while my hull is rapidly going down.
- No using devices while aligning or charging. For dreads thats around 5-30 seconds of doing nothing before jumping. For stations its around 5-45 seconds. That will absolutely not help anyone escape combat.
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Rebel Retribution
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 23, 2006
Posts: 41
From: Hillsboro, OR
Posted: 2010-11-02 19:19   
i think u just won spaceadmiral
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  Email Rebel Retribution
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
Posted: 2010-11-02 23:43   
Quote:

On 2010-11-02 19:06, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
@ Kenny
-he wants no jump gate in middle systems because they bottleneck attacking fleets, and thus promote gate camping
-new drives will help fleets to not need to go through gates, and thus the fleet will not be killed by gate campers at the bottle neck

@ Boomshot
-it would be "logical" to have both drives and their fuel if it allows fleets to completely bypass gates. A lot more maneuverability for the fleet
-it is energy hungry, so it won't be used by EADs, ADs, siphons, and stations to jump into combat with it. If used in a noncombat way you should have plenty of energy to spare.
-sig boost matters. Why? If you use this to exit combat you can and will be tracked farther. Second you can give away your and your fleet's position to the enemy.
-The 2 jump drives will share cooldown. That should teach everyone not to use this to enter or escape combat. If you don't like the longer cool down imposed on the interplanetary drive, we aren't forcing you to use it. You could play the whole game without using this interstellar drive or better yet use it in noncombat and not have its longer shared cooldown interfere with your use of the interplanetary drive.

@ Fridge
-wormholes are inaccurate, glitchy, and otherwise not worth it. They also announce your position to everyone in the server looking at the map. Also enemies can use them.

@ Borgie
-umm try to actually READ the post ENTIRELY before trolling?
-If you look at the interstellar jd closely, you will see it is very ill suited to combat escape or entry
-faster injump speed to avoid tracking negated by higher sig, allowing for around the same quality of tracking or better.
-energy hungry. they track you you're dead. Also makes this bad for combat entry
-longer cooldown + shared cooldown=no double jumps. plus this longer cool down again makes it ill suited to entering or exiting combat.
- 5-15 seconds of charging. Yup that will help me get an out of combat freecard. I mean i love charging while my hull is rapidly going down.
- No using devices while aligning or charging. For dreads thats around 5-30 seconds of doing nothing before jumping. For stations its around 5-45 seconds. That will absolutely not help anyone escape combat.





OK so you want to change the MV just because some ppl are gate camping? As in, call on the "Dev-ine" powers to bring the stars in Sag closer together?


Anyway... I agree with Boomshot. Makes no sense to have 2 diff kind of jumpdrives sharing the same fuel and cooldown. That's like having, say, two 2.6 litre engines in a Lamborghini Gallardo and being only able to use one of them at any given time. I rather have one big-ass 5.2L.... if you catch my analogy.

What I mean is... you might as well equip all ships with an interstellar JD then. But then, JDs are JDs aren't they? Interplanetary or Interstellar is just a matter of range in this game.

So.... In that case, you won't even need to replace ship drives. Simply increase the amount of fuel that all ships can carry twice or thrice over, and then you'll see entire fleets make jumps in between systems.


But you'll have to balance the fuel load carefully if you implement this.

Ships should not have the range to jump to another system and back again and still have spare change to pay the cab driver's tip. The ships should be able to jump cross-system only ONCE, and then perhaps a short intrasystem trip before they're dry.

This will encourage fleet to bring along their "oilers" ie. suppies, to refuel the capital ships before or after the engagement.

Otherwise, it will be, as Borgie said... a get out of jail free card.
Jumpgates can then remain for ferry purposes.






Edit: Come to think about it, you won't even need to increase fuel load. Everything can be left untouched.

If you truly want to assault a system without using a gate, simply get some engineer or command dread/station to build supply plats deep in interstellar space in between 2 systems. Use that as a stopover/gas-stop or rendezvous point for the fleet.







[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2010-11-02 23:59 ]
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Manowar
1st Rear Admiral
Praetorian Wolves


Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 34
From: Idaho Falls, ID
Posted: 2010-11-02 23:52   
ya know when the entire universe was on just one server you could do just jump from system to system sometimes even further... the draw back was total domination of every planet, ships running out of jumpdrive fuel, or both... alot of us oldsters got our gold nav badges that way
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights


Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
Posted: 2010-11-03 02:13   
Quote:

On 2010-11-02 19:06, SpaceAdmiral wrote:

@ Fridge
-wormholes are inaccurate, glitchy, and otherwise not worth it. They also announce your position to everyone in the server looking at the map. Also enemies can use them.




That's the price you pay for.
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Aradrox
Grand Admiral

Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 133
From: Tennessee
Posted: 2010-11-10 11:58   
Gate camping is NOT a problem let me tell you why... Make sure your JD is charged before going through the gate problems solved...Without the gates we will have alot less combat going why because that is a good combat area it a good tatical advantage to control a jumpgate...Gate Camping also is not against the RoC....Safe Zone camping is tho... but as MV gates dont have Safe zones this is a non issue....end of story
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3|Umf{StierKanz
Fleet Admiral

Joined: April 19, 2006
Posts: 22
From: On la isla
Posted: 2010-11-10 13:08   
says the luth!

This is an interesting concept. having both drives, to travel both in and out of systems with some what of ease. It would also give more of a starship feel with the isjd "charging" before thrusting you through space at un-imaginable speeds.

Yeah we were having a problem, the bottleneck of said gate was kinda of a sour note, as the "campers" were all high and mighty on their side, while we all attacked countless times. Unfortunatly they decided to stay on their side of the wall, and the fun deminished..

In conclusion: We should see how far we can take this, test it out, come up with a solid plan with details on rules/conditions if this were implemented.
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