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Suggestion Cloak building |
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
|  Posted: 2010-11-03 16:56
I don't believe you understand the point my good clanmate attempted to make. Permit me to lay it bare for you to see, undone of any and all veils and obscurities.
You cite the ICC planetary shield as a reason as to why each faction ought to have structures that can make bombing more difficult for opposing factions. You thereafter propose a mechanism that eliminates bombs (UGTO), and a mechanism that makes bombing much more difficult (K'Luth).
The point my clanmate tried to make but failed to eloquently convey is that proportionally, these counter-structures do not jive with the present balance. That is, the ICC shields cannot stop neutron bombs at all, and are susceptible to being razed, or just tranny rushed as planets do not, can not and will not protect themselves from incoming enemies.
In contrast, the propose UGTO mechanism would eliminate any type of bomb approaching, although it can be overpowered by "too many bombs". Ignoring for now the technical issues with making those fighters, it would grant UGTO a structure that provides defense against all bombings, but not to infantry rushes. This is quite alright-- but I fear its technical implication should have been explored further, as it sounds quite impossible.
The K'Luth mechanism would render bombing virtually impossible bar eliminating sensors and bombing the centre of the planet before going for another run - compared to the other two factionary devices, neither of which can eliminate an enemy bombardment completely, the K'Luth structure would make bombing impossible barring complete crapshoots, and give K'Luth a defensive advantage with planets under siege as tactical structures cannot be targeted.
While I understand that cloaking things is K'Luth's shtick, I have to disagree with the proposition that making them cloak planetary structures jives with balance (it does not) and that it is in accordance with their factionary model. They are offensive, not defensive; using technology for ships to hide structures strikes me as purely defensive.
Lastly, it should be considered that a planetary model has been drafted that changes the way planets interact with players and, by extension, the way structures work. For now, I'd consider the ICC shield's function a temporary one and recommend suggesting changes to planetary models after the new model has been implemented or formally canceled.
Also, just because criticism isn't constructive does not mean it is invalid. "It sucks" is just as valid as "It is not a good idea and there are no ways I can think of to salvage it". One is just more wordy. Faux-savantism does not a gentleman make.
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Scorched Soul[+R]
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: November 14, 2005
Posts: 378
From: USA, NJ, Princeton
| Posted: 2010-11-03 17:31
You have a valid point but what i am trying to say is that saying "It sucks because ..." and "It sucks." is the difference between thinking and trolling.
On the topic of the cloak would it not fix the issue if you could ping the structures, for of course a signifigantly longer time than you can a ship with a scanner bringing the scanner which doesn't from what i can tell get used all that often but the scanner would all so need some sort of cool down timer or people could just spam ping. This would take bombing a cloaked planet from the relm of crap shoot to a pain which is what it is to destroy stuctures on a planet which has a shield. In the event you didnt feel like destroying the structures you could just take whichever bombs you please and kill off the inf because they aren't cloaked and then drop your own inf.
Finally how did K'luth get slapped with a pure offense tag, they still have armor, planetary def, and just about all the other defensive options that the humans have granted they are not as good at it does, but that not negate the fact that they are trying in their own luthy way. Going on your logic we shouldn't worry about making new missles for the ICC because they are purely defensive, because they have shields and cant put out the same DPS that the kluth can. Such a statment is as apocryphal (been waiting to use that one for a while) as it is ridiculous. If I get a hive and fill it with armor enhancements It makes a pretty nasty tank. The Assault Dreadnaught does a stellar amount of damage, highest in the game I believe right in front of the siphon. The point I am trying to make is that just because a faction does not accel in one department does not mean that it shouldn't have any kind of abilities in it what so ever.
[ This Message was edited by: Scorched Soul[+R] on 2010-11-03 17:59 ]
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-11-03 18:47
the point being on this whole topic is the fact that icc has a structre build that protect planet and ugto and luth dont. i actually agree with this for the fact bombing lately is just not worth it. to easy really so let add some changes to were it make the player have to try a different approch to bombing and make bombing more fun.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-11-03 21:16
I would be fine to see such a building if the ICC shield generator did not fail as hard as it does now.
A 5 year old with a automatic rifle would do a better job.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
| Posted: 2010-11-03 22:40
Quote:
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On 2010-11-02 19:38, *soulless *TO* wrote:
the shield is useless cause all that ever happens it the planets gets tranny or station rushed
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shields should block enemy troops from being dropped on the planet tbh.
that would actually make it worth a build spot.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-03 23:25
ever try attacking a FLEET DEFENDED def/depo shield planet?
try going ugto once in a while to see how it is like to have shields on every enemy planet.
actually the only faction affected by bombing defenses is ugto. ICC just psm away while kluth cloak trannies. Its tiring to not be able to hit a planet's def or depo then having ICC complain it doesn't stop neuts or troops.
Uhh hello? If it stopped troops and neuts how do we take it? We can't nuke through it, it regenerates faster than a scouts armor near a depo planet.
Shields block
-Mirvs and telekenetic bombs
-psms
They don't block
-troops, countered by uhh defending the planet from trannies? QQed by ICC.
-Neuts, again countered by getting your ship and actually flying next to the planet to defend it. QQed by ICC.
Whats worse is ICC complain on how hard it is to take a depo planet with one station on guard...
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2010-11-03 23:53
honestly, shields do nothing if you can cloudbomb properly and your team is keeping hostiles at bay...
and i thought we werent ment to mirv because the rebuild is a pain?
PCM's suck. they couldnt hurt a fly, if they could even get there.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-03 23:58
Quote:
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On 2010-11-03 23:53, lulzypulzy*STEAK!!* wrote:
honestly, shields do nothing if you can cloudbomb properly and your team is keeping hostiles at bay...
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Same can be said for all faction planets currently. So what's the diff?
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-04 01:25
Quote:
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On 2010-11-03 23:53, lulzypulzy*STEAK!!* wrote:
honestly, shields do nothing if you can cloudbomb properly and your team is keeping hostiles at bay...
and i thought we werent ment to mirv because the rebuild is a pain?
PCM's suck. they couldnt hurt a fly, if they could even get there.
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like kenny said if you do that you could take an faction's planet...stop trying to get your planets to be invincible
also those PSMs that suck are really easy to use and are effective. 2-3 mds just spam away at a defense base. The defense base stupidly goes for the IT missles and all the psms hit. This is how ICC aren't affected by planet defense.
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-11-04 02:31
Quote:
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On 2010-11-03 23:25, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
ever try attacking a FLEET DEFENDED def/depo shield planet?
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Well i know that the shield does nothing as usually ugto are not even trying to bomb it.
The shield has no worth atm and an extra defense structure is more likely to be placed on the planet.
Oh and you have probably have the best bomber in the game.
The Bomber Frigate.
I'd rather the shield generator gets removed from the game, rather then 2 new structures.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-11-04 04:01
Quote:
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On 2010-11-03 14:56, Eledore Massis [R33] wrote:
I liked the idea, but we never go the planetary cloak working. (cloaking whole planet.)
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but that would be funny
you jump, you explode, cause you hit an invisible planet 
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Marius Falix
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 05, 2010
Posts: 268
From: Luyten
| Posted: 2010-11-04 06:45
suggest a massive EMP burst for ugto.
like massive. turn of all ships within 300 g.u. (ALL SHIPS, not just enemy ones. making it a strategic, lets hide, activate then jump in or last resort)
player activated naturally, noone wants to be randomly deactivated by ur own stupid AI.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2010-11-04 10:00
I like the overall idea because it's similar to ideas I had a while ago. Mine are slightly different:
1. The Kluth cloak building would make it harder to see everything on the surface, even with a scanner active, making it necessary for bombers to either be closer to the planet or to have a friendly near the planet to relay coordinates.
1. The UGTO unique building would give a HP bonus to all friendly buildings on the planet, and would itself have a high number. I'm thinking +50% - +100% HPs. The planet would be easier to bomb than an ICC planet with shield since MIRVs and Tele-kinetics would not be stopped, but it fits the theme of UGTO's increased armor vs ICC's shields.
Only the proper faction can benefit from these buildings, so when a planet is captured the unique building goes offline. That includes ICC shields. You have to scrap them and replace with your own unique building.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2010-11-04 19:36
Quote:
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On 2010-11-04 02:31, The Fridge wrote:
Well i know that the shield does nothing as usually ugto are not even trying to bomb it.
The shield has no worth atm and an extra defense structure is more likely to be placed on the planet.
Oh and you have probably have the best bomber in the game.
The Bomber Frigate.
I'd rather the shield generator gets removed from the game, rather then 2 new structures.
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half the time i'm on the reason we don't bomb is because of the shields...
[ This Message was edited by: Mersenne Twister on 2010-11-07 19:24 ]
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2010-11-04 20:43
Then your thinking like a true Uggie.........
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