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Latest beta update.... |
Julian Delphiki
Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2002
Posts: 170
|  Posted: 2010-11-21 15:34
In the past, few people took out stations and dreads until they had a sufficient buffer to prevent demotions. Raising the pres lost per death closer to what it used to be will cause players to get into smaller ships. Though the past few months have kind of crippled the idea that this would even work, due to the fact that pres has been so easy to get, most people have enough of a buffer to lose tons of large ships...
Smaller ships are effective, its just a matter of being able to use them skillfully and coordinate at the same time.. Which most new gamers these days(on most games) seriously lack..
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Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-21 17:27
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On 2010-11-21 15:29, The Fridge wrote:
13 Stealth scouts vs 9-11 stations and dreads.
Stealth scouts won.
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I guess that's why we see stealth scout fleets around all the time.
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Derpy
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 12, 2010
Posts: 4
| Posted: 2010-11-21 20:11
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On 2010-11-21 12:51, Reznor wrote:
I don't understand how you guys think small ships are uneffective....
Especially considering that the OP is an ICC player, and ICC has the best small ships.
Basically: you can pepper your massive easy to hit target from range without cause for concern. You get point jumped? Hop 1kgu away and continue your assault.
Your dessie can't hurt stations? Wrong, get a missile destroyer. A pack of missile destroyers = a dead station. Plus dessie's JD recharge rate is far far higher than a Dreads. Your only concern would be getting chased by frigates (which can outmanuver and outjump your destroyer) .
Smaller ships have thier advantages too, you just have to keep your distance from the heavy hitters.
And also: ICC heavy cruiser owns  .
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I have a counter to everything you just said.
Spam stations.
-Ent
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2010-11-21 20:53
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On 2010-11-21 04:06, Bombg wrote:
In theory yes, but the fact that there's almost no variation between the classes of ships selected is proof that it isn't.
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Oh, and if you think people use dreads a lot, then wait for the new ship layouts. |
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I await eagerly =).
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no sadly it is not in theory bombg and considering i have played over serveral accounts for 5 years 
(thats right i started playing when i was 12 forgot my account passwords so made a new one sadly i didn't understand the concept of RECOVER PASSWORD .)
if you want we can go back to good old 1.4 the one with fighterbases and all these resources that had to be mined like darkmatter and metal or was it 1.39 no matter.
the era of self upgradable componants and swapable devices *even with tech from the other team  *
little ships were overpowered then if you do not believe me ever seen a missle destroyer armed with pure TORPS. turn all the sensor slots to ecm and kapla qqing ugto or icc when their precious cruiser or dread got obleriated.
this converstation of improving smaller ships to match a dread is pointless
BECAUSE THEY STILL CAN.
and the devs are not going to do it unless everyone complains (unfortunately by the time that might happen people would be to busy COMPLAING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE at that stage i highly doubt anyone WOULD CARE)
GIVE IT UP
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-21 21:00
Why do I get this strange feeling that some people are expecting a fleet of small ships to be able to take down a fleet of big ships?
To me, the role of the small ship has always been harrassment, especially when used against bigger ships....
And also, support, where you assist your big ships in taking pot shots at the enemy while they're busy firing back at the capships on your side.
Use it 1 vs 1... or 3 vs 3.... against big ships?
You're doing it ALL WRONG.
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Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-21 22:14
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On 2010-11-21 21:00, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Why do I get this strange feeling that some people are expecting a fleet of small ships to be able to take down a fleet of big ships?
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No, it's that people are saying this is already possible, and I see you disagree by the rest of your post.
So far this is the arguments I've been getting.
"No, small ships are very useful you're just a newb!" *flies mainly big ships*
or
"Small ships aren't used often because they require skill to use, and big ships require less skill.But this game isn't a baby eater! If newbs(in small high skill required ships) just learn how to outskill month/year vets (in large low skill required ships) then they'll do just fine!"
[ This Message was edited by: Bombg on 2010-11-21 22:50 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-22 01:24
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On 2010-11-21 22:14, Bombg wrote:
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On 2010-11-21 21:00, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Why do I get this strange feeling that some people are expecting a fleet of small ships to be able to take down a fleet of big ships?
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No, it's that people are saying this is already possible, and I see you disagree by the rest of your post.
So far this is the arguments I've been getting.
"No, small ships are very useful you're just a newb!" *flies mainly big ships*
or
"Small ships aren't used often because they require skill to use, and big ships require less skill.But this game isn't a baby eater! If newbs(in small high skill required ships) just learn how to outskill month/year vets (in large low skill required ships) then they'll do just fine!"
[ This Message was edited by: Bombg on 2010-11-21 22:50 ]
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The point I'm trying to make is that small ships are limited in combat in the first place.
They do well versus each other.
They do well versus support ships
They don't do so well vs big ships, but that's normal. The only thing that can perhaps be improved would be the weapons layout on the small ships.... (because the devs prob won't touch weaps levelling).
So when you fly a small ship, adjust your expectations accordingly.
You harrass the bigger ships. Don't expect to hurt them much. You hit them, and when they jump you, you make a short jump out and continue to harrass them.
Or you can provide additional fire support for big ships on your side. Hit the enemy when his armor is red, and earn prestige while you're at it. Let your big ships tear their shields/armor away, then join in the fight.
There's no room in this game, especially in the MV, to make things easier for newbies. The ships are what they are, just ships. If you're skilled or talented from the get go, then you'll do well in them... otherwise DIE and LEARN from every death till you get better.
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2010-11-22 01:56
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On 2010-11-21 21:00, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Why do I get this strange feeling that some people are expecting a fleet of small ships to be able to take down a fleet of big ships?
...
Use it 1 vs 1... or 3 vs 3.... against big ships?
You're doing it ALL WRONG.
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This is true.
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On 2010-11-21 21:00, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
To me, the role of the small ship has always been harrassment, especially when used against bigger ships....
And also, support, where you assist your big ships in taking pot shots at the enemy while they're busy firing back at the capships on your side.
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Harrassment is not enough and pot shotting in heat of battle in small ship is dangerous.
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On 2010-11-21 22:14, Bombg wrote:
No, it's that people are saying this is already possible, and I see you disagree by the rest of your post.
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This is also true.
Small ships need to be used in swarms to be effective and that's only one of the problems. You need to outnumber your enemy to do it and if you do, it's already better to swarm them with dreads.
The only point in placing smaller craft on battlefield is to fight AI ships, counter smaller enemy craft and tracking down e-jumped ships, it also needs to be a big battle, not a small scale skirmish or a random street fight.
Conclusion: Smaller ships will never be used unless you have huge amount of players willing to abandon the comfort big ships offer.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-11-22 04:23
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On 2010-11-22 01:56, Gerlach wrote:
Conclusion: Smaller ships will never be used unless you have huge amount of players willing to abandon the comfort big ships offer.
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And.... short of making small ships ridiculously powerful, perhaps the only good alternative would be to make bigger ships prohibitively expensive to lose... in terms of prestige.
eg:
Station loss.... 3000 pres
Dread loss .... 1500 pres
Something to that effect
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-11-22 04:34
that how it use to be and people qqed over it now they qq that people dont lose enough. i tell ya if we just went back to the old darkspace everyone would be happy.
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Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2010-11-22 04:59
Quote:
| Nova Team wrote:
cruiser and dessie are bassed on speed not super powerful guns that can oneshot everything. now i know people going to read that and say : we dont want the to one shot anything we just want them to be able to handle a dread." |
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No this is what I said.
"I'd like to see it so when fleets start to form they decide they need a mix of ships and ship types instead of just "EVERYONE GO GET YOUR DREADS AND STATIONS" "
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| There's no room in this game, especially in the MV, to make things easier for newbies. The ships are what they are, just ships. If you're skilled or talented from the get go, then you'll do well in them... otherwise DIE and LEARN from every death till you get better. |
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Except when most people find out the cards are stacked against them, and there's no place for them they're just going to up and leave.
Other than some cool guys I met through a friend; I've never been asked to join a group, or fill a role(not that I'm QQing about that). Small combat ships would be perfect for this if they had something players thought they must have with them. It would encourage people to seek out newbies for their fleet thus giving them a place within the game. Or hey maybe a vet will decide to fill that role instead since it helps so much.
All of this could be accomplished without increasing firepower of small ships.
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