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Antra
Admiral
Agents
Joined: February 16, 2002
Posts: 657
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
|  Posted: 2011-03-07 16:56
They haven't for about a decade now, give or take a year or wto.  "Know your enemy" and all that, you've spent time as K'luth in scenario right?
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-03-07 17:45
To remove some confusion:
QST:
-has ammo
-no "charge" time
-1 shot
Kluth cannons have falloff, beams and SI do not.
However, kluth beams deal considerably worse damage than human beams other than max range, point blank human beams deal more damage.
Edit: You forgot all kluth small ships except Scarab and Supply ships basically suck. (Yeah ima get my nice, almost unarmored destroyer in your point blank. And then wait 15 seconds to recloak)
[ This Message was edited by: SpaceAdmiral on 2011-03-07 17:48 ]
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-03-07 18:08
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 00:00, *OmniVore* wrote:
i am not complaining about cloak but K'luth get alot of bonuses
1. the cloak
2. infinite ammo core weapons
3. heavy beams as standard weapons across all ships
4. cruisers that have more weapons than ICC/UGTO dreads
5. Faster jump drives/cruiser engines
6. hull repair(why all factions don't have this i can't understand)
7. fighters with disruptors(which sucks since they are probably the ones used in all ships)
8. too many beams across all their ships
if i missed anything please let me know
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1. yes we can cloak, but we still can and do take damage while cloaked. learn to ping and beacon
2. yes si have unlimited ammo, why does it matter?
3. we have a mix of heavy ruptors and mostly light ruptors on dreds. in fact the krill has 4 hvy and 6 light beams. also our beams vrs human ones use more power and have a longer recharge.
4. yes our cruisers may have more weapons then ugto and icc, but thats traded off for lighter armor, and higher power useage.
5. faster jump drive make up for our lighter armor. faster cruiser engines also make up for lighter armor at the cost of energy.
6. hull repair.. make it so luth ships do not have to visit repair planets as offten as ugto/icc. reason why all 3 factions don't have AHR it would make killing human ships extreemly difficulet with ugto stronger armor and icc shields. its a trade off.
7. yes interceptor fighters have disruptors on em, but then again ugto fighters have cl's and icc have there pulse laser on them. there ment for point defence of missles and other fighters, but currently fighter AI is well stupid and they just go and attack that target when there luanched.
8. yes we have alot of beams on our ships. but we have to get with in 250 ish gu to use all of them which makes us fine targets for yall to hammer away on. also our beams use alot of energy to fire. on a mandi if you hit the space bar twice your outta power..
so please don't bitch about how luth ships are equiped becuase you failed at killing one a luth resently...
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-03-07 20:24
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 17:45, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Edit: You forgot all kluth small ships except Scarab and Supply ships basically suck. (Yeah ima get my nice, almost unarmored destroyer in your point blank. And then wait 15 seconds to recloak)
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I'll never understand the hatred toward smaller Kluth ships, it's like nobody's even tried a Fang, Talon, Beak, Nymph, or Shell since the refits. If you try knife fighting with smaller ships then yes you're going to get wasted rather quickly, the way to use them is make single attack runs with cannons/torpedoes (granted, AM torps probably won't be hitting anything smaller than a Dreadnought unless it's not moving) then cloak and maneuver into position again. Unless someone REALLY sucks at dodging or the other guy gets REALLY lucky with blind firing the damage you take will be negligible.
Kluth small ships are not pres machines, they're for harrassment and they do this very well.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-03-07 21:04
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 18:08, Borgie wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 00:00, *OmniVore* wrote:
i am not complaining about cloak but K'luth get alot of bonuses
1. the cloak
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1. yes we can cloak, but we still can and do take damage while cloaked. learn to ping and beacon
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yeah well unfortunately they extremely nerfed sensors.
eccm only works in a 400 gu radius instead of a 1k gu radius with fall off the further out said target is (unless you got about 9 eccms running at once)
massive ecm spams no longer works as well as instead of a 600 gu radius.
its a 200 gu radius.
now heres the kicker at about 400 to 200 gu from said target most kluth decloak anyway and start firing.
ecms i can understand.
but the eccm i mean why bother reducing to a 400 gu radius when a lot of kluth start firing all their non energy wasting weapons anyway and start to close the gap chewing the armor and shields anyway.
on the bright side noone can really use scouts anymore to effectively predetect kluth.
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Deth *CO2*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 193
| Posted: 2011-03-07 21:29
Quote:
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i am not complaining about cloak but K'luth get alot of bonuses
1. the cloak
2. infinite ammo core weapons
3. heavy beams as standard weapons across all ships
4. cruisers that have more weapons than ICC/UGTO dreads
5. Faster jump drives/cruiser engines
6. hull repair(why all factions don't have this i can't understand)
7. fighters with disruptors(which sucks since they are probably the ones used in all ships)
8. too many beams across all their ships
if i missed anything please let me know
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1so what? there alien and thats there primary function
2. the core weapons use energy as there ammo
3. Wrong all the only cruiser that has a heavy beam is the parisite and they have disruptors and assualt disruptors
4.Mmmk sure.....
5. You expect them to stay in as long as a UGTO dread? mk
6. Because before they put armor on them they had onyl hull
and did i meantion there armor is weak as hell?
7.Nope they only have taurus ruptors and larvae wich is PSI
and wasp bomb's
8.there a clsoe range hit and run faction....i say to many beams of the EAD that make you mad?
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-03-07 21:46
You guys need to stop defending the imbalances of this game please, i know there has to be some variety but they should have the same amount of weapons and defenses and scanning abilties.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-03-07 22:04
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 20:24, Talien wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 17:45, SpaceAdmiral wrote:
Edit: You forgot all kluth small ships except Scarab and Supply ships basically suck. (Yeah ima get my nice, almost unarmored destroyer in your point blank. And then wait 15 seconds to recloak)
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I'll never understand the hatred toward smaller Kluth ships, it's like nobody's even tried a Fang, Talon, Beak, Nymph, or Shell since the refits. If you try knife fighting with smaller ships then yes you're going to get wasted rather quickly, the way to use them is make single attack runs with cannons/torpedoes (granted, AM torps probably won't be hitting anything smaller than a Dreadnought unless it's not moving) then cloak and maneuver into position again. Unless someone REALLY sucks at dodging or the other guy gets REALLY lucky with blind firing the damage you take will be negligible.
Kluth small ships are not pres machines, they're for harrassment and they do this very well.
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A Shell is a weaker Claw, which in turn is destroyed by anything bigger. I believe Talons now only have cannons, and loose the 1-2 torps the other factions have. Frigates lack punch and manueverability.
Also
1. Kluth cannons and torps are already practically knife fights, 600 max range.
2. You can't reposition with a 15 sec cooldown cloak and expect to do damage. (cooldown is for both cloaking and decloaking)
3. Torps suck. Hard. Unless it is an assault type dreads torp alpha, torps are near useless.
In the world of small ships, the one dominant factor is range. Range equals dodging power. This is why Combat type ICC small ships dominate, especially against dreads. In big ships which prioritize short-bursts of high dps, assault type ships rule. This in turn leads to kluth ships not being able to function well, as 99.999% of the time there is at least 1 dread on the field.
Finally, what you said about small ships harrassing would have been true some patches ago, with no cloak timers. They could strike 2-3 alphas, cloak, then reposition. Now its strike, strike, strike, wait for timer, almost die, cloak and hope they don't land another lucky core.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-03-07 22:08
Quote:
| On 2011-03-07 21:46, *OmniVore* wrote:
should have the same amount of weapons and defenses and scanning abilties. |
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Another overhaul again? Ain't we waiting for new layout already?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-07 22:21
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 21:46, *OmniVore* wrote:
You guys need to stop defending the imbalances of this game please, i know there has to be some variety but they should have the same amount of weapons and defenses and scanning abilties.
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Wrong. Not everything is supposed to have the "same amount of weapons and defenses and scanning abilities"
In case you missed it, Cloak was intended to be absolute. Check with Jack.
Meaning, pinging was not supposed to exist. You should not have been able to penetrate or break cloak. But because of a bug that could not be fixed, pinging was left behind. And that's DS cloak circa 2011. Consider that your bonus.
Now back to your "same amount" suggestion. How is this different from making all factions the same? Same ship class, same weapon damage... but all under different skins?
I can understand people asking buffs for their factions. But I disagree with ppl who ask for nerfs for other factions. If you want a nerf, then ask for a nerf across the board for a ship class or attribute for ALL factions.
That's how you guys get the derisive nickname IQQ in the first place. LOL....
Now what should be suggested.
- Ion Cannon gets unlimited ammo. This is to compensate for limited ammo on railguns and such.
- Buff damage values on railguns. Are they non-falloff, if not they should.
- Increase ammo count. (Didn't the devs introduce the Ammo Rack enh?? Use it!)
- Strengthen shields further.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-07 22:32 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-07 22:28
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 20:24, Talien wrote:
I'll never understand the hatred toward smaller Kluth ships, it's like nobody's even tried a Fang, Talon, Beak, Nymph, or Shell since the refits. If you try knife fighting with smaller ships then yes you're going to get wasted rather quickly, the way to use them is make single attack runs with cannons/torpedoes (granted, AM torps probably won't be hitting anything smaller than a Dreadnought unless it's not moving) then cloak and maneuver into position again. Unless someone REALLY sucks at dodging or the other guy gets REALLY lucky with blind firing the damage you take will be negligible.
Kluth small ships are not pres machines, they're for harrassment and they do this very well.
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Somebody who understands. Good.
Yes. Small K'luth ships are all about harrassment. But they can kill the occassional cruiser. In fact, all small ships are all about harrassment when put up against the heavies. What did they expect?? To own?
Dreads and Stations can't dodge torps very well. So small K'luth ships can manuever just beyond beam range and zigzag while shooting at the enemy heavies with PSIs, missiles and Torps. Forget the beams. With their low energy store, using beams on heavies are a waste of time!
But I did manage to kill a player UGTO missile cruiser yesterday with a Claw. He was attacking an ICC planet, and was dico'ed. So I managed to get in close behind him, and pummelled him alpha after alpha while manuevering to stay on his six till his hull ran to zero.
So it's all about using the ship in the right way, in the right situation.
But I have to add one thing.
The K'luth dessies should also get their cloak cooldown shortened to 7 secs. Those ships are not durable enough to have the same cooldown as the dreads. I have tested this time after time with the Claw. It cannot function effectively with a 15 secs timer.
Maybe that's why folks are not using them anymore.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-03-07 22:31 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-07 22:35
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 21:04, jamesbob wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 18:08, Borgie wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-03-07 00:00, *OmniVore* wrote:
i am not complaining about cloak but K'luth get alot of bonuses
1. the cloak
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1. yes we can cloak, but we still can and do take damage while cloaked. learn to ping and beacon
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yeah well unfortunately they extremely nerfed sensors.
eccm only works in a 400 gu radius instead of a 1k gu radius with fall off the further out said target is (unless you got about 9 eccms running at once)
massive ecm spams no longer works as well as instead of a 600 gu radius.
its a 200 gu radius.
now heres the kicker at about 400 to 200 gu from said target most kluth decloak anyway and start firing.
ecms i can understand.
but the eccm i mean why bother reducing to a 400 gu radius when a lot of kluth start firing all their non energy wasting weapons anyway and start to close the gap chewing the armor and shields anyway.
on the bright side noone can really use scouts anymore to effectively predetect kluth.
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It's a trade off. Shortened range, but shortened cooldown resulting in a higher frequency of use.
You have an advantage when you outnumber Kluth. Eg. 3 ships working together to hunt down 1 or 2.
But when the lobsters outnumber you 2 or more to 1, then it won't matter anyway.
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Kaepora
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 08, 2011
Posts: 77
| Posted: 2011-03-08 00:27
I have to disagree greatly about K'luth supplies being good ships. They're horrible. They have horrible armor arcs (2 layers covering 3 sides, what? And they're the sides that get hit when you're running, go figure) , and almost no hull, so AHR is no use.
Basically, the ECCM nerf makes it SO MUCH EASIER than it was before. Know what it was before? EASY MODE. Even if they can ping you, it doesn't matter because it takes a massive amount of firepower to bring you down.
"Oh oh, weak armor" is what K'luth players say . Keep in mind it repairs insanely fast at no cost, even while cloaked. Over the course of a battle, the total armor HP consumed/Regened is much much higher for K'luth. Meaning they've absorbed more damage than anyone else. What's taken away is very quickly replaced.
Only UGTO with station spam can regen at the rates that K'luth do.
K'luth and ICC with equal numbers ends in a K'luth victory. K'luth with numbers vs ICC is a steamroll. ICC with numbers vs K'luth is a slow haul in the mud during a storm uphill.
Long range faction with it's only advantage nulified.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-03-08 03:43
Quote:
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On 2011-03-08 00:27, Kaepora wrote:
K'luth and ICC with equal numbers ends in a K'luth victory. K'luth with numbers vs ICC is a steamroll. ICC with numbers vs K'luth is a slow haul in the mud during a storm uphill.
Long range faction with it's only advantage nulified.
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Same could be said of ICC vs UGTO.
Basically, ICC is the steamrolled faction. It needs either a buff for shields, weapons.
Or it needs a complete rethink and revamp of what the faction's supposed to be. And by that I mean total reconfiguration and maybe redesign of the weapons and shield/armor thing.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2011-03-08 08:41
ICC is not just a range faction, we have assault ships right?
Assault Dreadnoughts for example are a good weapon vs Kluth if the ADs just stay close together and jump together.Kluth will not die easy without beacon, but ADs wont die fast either, if they pack.
To topic: My scanner is still working 
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