On 2011-04-29 11:11, General Zod wrote:

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On 2011-04-27 22:54, Reznor wrote: I've always been of the opinion that Azreal is always right, and I still agree with him here . Though I'm curious to know how you'd change it, Azreal. Bring back .483 (is that the right number?) cloak? But I don't know what .483 cloak was like :S .

If that was the version where ECM and ECCM had a direct impact on signature while cloaked, it was IMO the best cloak version.

I can't remember old versions anymore, only old game elements I miss.

The new cloak does not work well with the old ECM and ECCM. Lots of ECCM (which makes ships easier to detect) makes them uncloak slower and ECM makes them faster. Logically it's backwards. ECM actively works to make ships harder to detect and ECCM easier.

(the underlying problem is cloaked ships not being considered fully uncloaked until their signatures reach their eventual uncloaked value, which for stations takes forever)

I don't think the old cloak would work with the new planet system though.

On 2011-04-29 18:21, Defiance*XO* wrote:

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On 2011-04-29 17:42, SpaceAdmiral wrote: At entry levels UGTO is easier to play than ICC. This is because many people decide its fun to point jump enemies while in a combat dread. They play to their enemies' strengths and then pay for it. But at higher levels I would say managing armor arcs is harder than maintaining shields. Closing distance vs skilled ICC is harder than maintaining the long range. UGTO ships seem to have good energy because almost everyone shuts pd off. The few people who use pd find it energy demanding to close in on enemies with full speed and pd. UGTO also have to worry about enemy fighters the most, with other factions having huge pd/cloak counters. In short, ICC is easier to play at tip top shape than UGTO once you get the hang of shields and energy. But the popular "point jump mash spacebar" works best with UGTO, as they are the slugger faction.

Your delusional.
you should probably see your doctor and get some meds perscribed for your sickness.

On 2011-04-30 05:51, Defiance*XO* wrote:
your right. my appologies.

in order to negate icc range advantage, all ugto/luth have to do is pair up into two man teams. One jumps the icc tgt forcing it to jump. The other jumps in and kills the icc tgt once he has.

in order to properly rotate your ship to use all of its armor arcs, all you have to do is decide... clockwise? or counter clockwise?... Then set up your attack accordingly.

next up,. ugto ships are well rounded for every situation where as icc has specific ships for specific jobs. if icc fails to use the right tool for the right job, he/she dies. Ugto battledread is good vs icc and luth. ICC combat dread is good vs ugto only. ICC assault dread is good vs both.. but its a freak of nature.

icc is defencive. it acheives this by rotating sheilds. In order to do this you have to use the number pad. In order to tgt enemies and controle camera, must use mouse. In order to dodge must use arrow keys. To fire must use number bar. In order to drive must use asdf. To manage sheild state must use cntrole s without turning right at the same time or will self distruct. Must point jump away from tgts so must use shift j. I look like a contorshonist trying to fly icc. As UGTO you have to worry about 1/3 of that. And i would not have it any other way

i will however agree with you, that if icc is competent pilot, he can make ugto life hell.

[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-04-30 05:52 ]

On 2011-04-29 18:28, Defiance*XO* wrote:
OK. So icc station sucks due to one armor. This forces us to use our station in nich roles. I dont think this needs fixed, rather the other two braught in line with this.

ICC cant depo camp like the other two. Again i say the other two should be more like icc.. not icc like them. Depo camp is a lame, stupid, unrealistic tactic that i want no part of. Im glad we cant do it too.

Someone said above "why dont you just attack somewhere else where there is no depo planet". ... have you looked at ugto space? every cluster is a depo planet (and i can hardly blame them). If you ignore the depo planet all together you face an imortal fleet. Where when you kill a dread/station it appears but a moment later full health and shooting you again. Lame.

On 2011-04-30 13:37, SpaceAdmiral wrote:

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On 2011-04-30 05:51, Defiance*XO* wrote: your right. my appologies. in order to negate icc range advantage, all ugto/luth have to do is pair up into two man teams. One jumps the icc tgt forcing it to jump. The other jumps in and kills the icc tgt once he has. in order to properly rotate your ship to use all of its armor arcs, all you have to do is decide... clockwise? or counter clockwise?... Then set up your attack accordingly. next up,. ugto ships are well rounded for every situation where as icc has specific ships for specific jobs. if icc fails to use the right tool for the right job, he/she dies. Ugto battledread is good vs icc and luth. ICC combat dread is good vs ugto only. ICC assault dread is good vs both.. but its a freak of nature. icc is defencive. it acheives this by rotating sheilds. In order to do this you have to use the number pad. In order to tgt enemies and controle camera, must use mouse. In order to dodge must use arrow keys. To fire must use number bar. In order to drive must use asdf. To manage sheild state must use cntrole s without turning right at the same time or will self distruct. Must point jump away from tgts so must use shift j. I look like a contorshonist trying to fly icc. As UGTO you have to worry about 1/3 of that. And i would not have it any other way i will however agree with you, that if icc is competent pilot, he can make ugto life hell. [ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-04-30 19:19 ]

1. ICC benefit the most from dictors for this reason. Also, Assault dreads can protect the more vulnerable missile dreads. This is mainly because any ships that bumrush the missile dreads are already worn down by missiles, enough to be killed by assault dreads.

2. While it sounds easy to manage armor arcs, in more mobile combat(with the ships actually moving) it is actually quite hard to get the best out of armor arcs. This is because every faction has the "stick to one enemy arc" mentality and many ships have a favored arc in the way of weapons. Armor is one of the reasons small ships excel vs UGTO: They don't have cloak to shake them off nor can they redirect their shields to the damaged arc, allowing the small ship to kill a UGTO ship while they have a lot of armor left. Stations only exploit this because it isn't like they are going to move anyways.

3. Yes I would agree the battle dread is all purpose, and the CD could get some buffing. But the AD is proly considered the best assault ship due to shields allowing you to maintain the forward arc firepower.

4. I personally just use asdw for driving/dodging and the number line/bar above that to fire weapons. This is for all factions, shields take a few seconds to press the arc you want repeatedly (My alt uses a HC which uses shields). (It did get a few hours getting completely used to though, which would be a problem for newer players)
For camera I "lock" the camera to the target I want by clicking that target once and not rotating the camera after that. The camera should always have your target centered.
Also, only 3 things you mentioned are unique to ICC, 1 almost crossing the line. 2 involve shields (defence mode shouldn't really be used in combat). 1 involves emergency jumping, which technically all factions have to do.

These 2 factions take different types of skill, but you can make more mistakes with UGTO when beginning. But ask an older player of this game if they would rather have BC or HC (nearly layout copies of each other) and HC would proly win everytime. I would say the same for BD and CD but the current CD is inferior to BD, they aren't even near each other in layout.

The main reason why UGTO is dominating atm is sheer numbers. Faction hoppers also contribute to this problem.

On 2011-04-30 19:10, Defiance*XO* wrote:

love this. And when was the last time you saw enuff icc on to preform this fleet action?

i will however tilt, to the fact that ugto can do little to counter a small ship destroying one arc then their ship. I still feel that your inital point, "its easy to hold range than it is to close it" is flawed. Perhaps if all of icc's weapons fired aft id agree with you.. however, range is an advantage only in the beginning of a battle. After a short time, the gap is closed, and both sides do a dance of circles. I will say that holding range was infact, easier pre-range modification (all factions ranges reduced about 7 months ago). Now the ICC only outrange ugto by maby 200gu. (ugto qst no fall off and every ugto is using them.) In the case of the HC, for example, its railguns just barly outrange qst at all. Actually the splash damage of qst fired at range reaches farther than railguns... im rambling sorry

On 2011-05-01 09:49, Talien wrote:
More ICC should follow the lead of those who know and use Gauss.

On 2011-05-01 15:03, Talien wrote:
Yes they are, but at least with a Heavy Cruiser if you're not trying to constantly go top speed while firing it takes quite a while to run dry, and while I'm not a Destroyer pilot and haven't tried it with a Combat Destroyer I'd imagine it could do similarly well. A small wolfpack of Sensor Corvettes with Gauss is just great.

On 2011-04-30 19:04, Nuuna wrote:
Its funny who all are whining atm. What is atm state of art....

You see a Kaluth Jumping in front of you firing all beams and you see your shild and armour going down fast as hell. Forgotten to mention...they jump in groups. So you are waporised befor you can react. The Combat Destroyer whas scrap. No close quarter abilitys, no real distance ability, well arounded a bit but much to weak. Enemies direct jump to 300 klicks and you had no chance. Same with other ships or why do you think that ICC has so less players?

Even closequarter ships like the both Assault ships, have no Chances vs Elite Uggi or Mandible Kaluth....you cannot resupply the shilds fast enough when you have killed 25% of Uggi Armour you have lost all Shilds and 50% of your own armour (cause they can use Reflectives one...) so its like always, new ships come, new tactics, and if no tactics work they will refit other ships a bit.
[ This Message was edited by: jamesbob on 2011-05-02 00:38 ]