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[Beta] Cruiser Layout Feedback |
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
|  Posted: 2011-05-02 13:51
A flux heavy ship would be interesting, maybe some beams to eat through armor/shield quickly then flux cannons to kill systems. It'd be effective against any size target since it could just wait for a larger ship to have it's armor busted by something else then jump in to flux it up.
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*Obsidian Shadow*
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-02 14:01
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On 2011-05-02 13:51, Talien wrote:
to flux it up.
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i like your style.. but ya ICC have a specialised cruiser in the form of the SC perhaps the uglies could have this flux boat but that TC i do not look forward to getting an alpha in the rear end from that thing and k'luth have their beam boats anyway with cloaking so i'd say they're good
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-05-02 15:35
F = Front. P = ?, S = ? Sorry, English is not my main language.
May we allow suggest the default Drive and EW for ships, too?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-02 15:38
Quote:
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On 2011-05-02 15:35, chlorophyll wrote:
F = Front. P = ?, S = ? Sorry, English is not my main language.
May we allow suggest the default Drive and EW for ships, too?
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P=Port, left side
S=Starboard, right side
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-03 13:10
Yeah.....the new Interdictor layouts are way too energy efficient, they can go top speed for far too long with the field active and barely lose energy. Even with both aux reactors turned off it still gains energy when moving slowly, so it seems like an issue with the power drain of the gadget itself being too low more than an issue with Interdictors having aux reactors.
I'd suggest having your own JD disabled while the field is active like when cloaked, and doubling the power usage of the gadget so the ship can have an aux reactor to recharge quicker when sitting still but be unable to chase people for very long, which is the reason most people log off when there's an Interdictor on the other team.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-03 13:15
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On 2011-05-03 13:10, Talien wrote:
Yeah.....the new Interdictor layouts are way too energy efficient, they can go top speed for far too long with the field active and barely lose energy. Even with both aux reactors turned off it still gains energy when moving slowly, so it seems like an issue with the power drain of the gadget itself being too low more than an issue with Interdictors having aux reactors.
I'd suggest having your own JD disabled while the field is active like when cloaked, and doubling the power usage of the gadget so the ship can have an aux reactor to recharge quicker when sitting still but be unable to chase people for very long, which is the reason most people log off when there's an Interdictor on the other team.
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I thought most people logged off because they died?
Honestly, the ship is there for a reason. Its got to be able to chase down ships and keep them pinned down somehow. On top of it being such a thankless (prestige wise) job, this sounds like a solution to keep people out of them rather than balancing them.
People log off because they died. Which is exactly what the interdictor is meant to help do, besides control the battlefield, is to make sure your enemy dies. People want a free pass no matter what it seems.
-Ent
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-03 19:22
Missiles seem to have been ..... made fail?
(i dont know when it was done, ive not shot a missile since ugto cried about my MD when i was a VA)
range on IT missile is 1680 as tested with ugto MC. Furthermore, the missile only flies its max range then dies... no more missile clouds to detect kluth ships 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-03 20:47
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On 2011-05-03 13:15, Enterprise wrote:
I thought most people logged off because they died?
Honestly, the ship is there for a reason. Its got to be able to chase down ships and keep them pinned down somehow. On top of it being such a thankless (prestige wise) job, this sounds like a solution to keep people out of them rather than balancing them.
People log off because they died. Which is exactly what the interdictor is meant to help do, besides control the battlefield, is to make sure your enemy dies. People want a free pass no matter what it seems.
-Ent
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From what I understand the idea behind the Interdictor was area denial, you move one in and the enemy can no longer transit through that area unless they bring enough firepower in to kill the Interdictor or make it run. Right now it's mostly used as a griefing tool by whatever side already has numerical superiority just to harrass the other side by trapping ONE ship at a time so they can point jump it until someone finally does it right and manages to kill them.
There's no "free pass", it's simply too easy to (ab)use Interdictors and adding another aux reactor makes it even easier to do so.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-03 21:59
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On 2011-05-03 19:22, Defiance*XO* wrote:
Missiles seem to have been ..... made fail?
(i dont know when it was done, ive not shot a missile since ugto cried about my MD when i was a VA)
range on IT missile is 1680 as tested with ugto MC. Furthermore, the missile only flies its max range then dies... no more missile clouds to detect kluth ships
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Missile clouds contributed to lag, proly devs made it to further reduce lag. Also the current IT missiles do more damage than the old ones I believe.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-04 00:17
Quote:
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On 2011-05-03 13:10, Talien wrote:
Yeah.....the new Interdictor layouts are way too energy efficient, they can go top speed for far too long with the field active and barely lose energy. Even with both aux reactors turned off it still gains energy when moving slowly, so it seems like an issue with the power drain of the gadget itself being too low more than an issue with Interdictors having aux reactors.
I'd suggest having your own JD disabled while the field is active like when cloaked, and doubling the power usage of the gadget so the ship can have an aux reactor to recharge quicker when sitting still but be unable to chase people for very long, which is the reason most people log off when there's an Interdictor on the other team.
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This. A thousand times this.
Dictor cruisers suck all the fun out of the game. I've seen more than a few people log when a dictor's spotted. It's not about "Free pres", it's about actually having a CHANCE.
With an enemy dictor, you're dead unless you're K'luth (ez button ftw) . UGTO always have an EAD around to assist the dictor, K'luth have six dozen cloaked dreads surrounding you at any given moment to assist thier dictor, and ICC shoots missiles that...get shot down and cause no damage...But at least they escape....unless there's K'luth around. In which case the MDs are Siphon food.
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Indictor: 1. To accuse of wrongdoing
Interdictor: (DS) A planetary emplacement or Cruiser Class vessel capable of preventing FTL travel in a certain radius.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-15 12:00
Strike Cruiser, take 2, now that I've actually gotten around to testing the 3rd layout. (Or is it the 4th? I see it doesn't have the f/p, f/s cannons and has fore only in their place)
While the armor issue was addressed it is unfortunately still a gimmick ship, stats might look nice on paper but it doesn't work in practice. You mainly have 2 options with this ship since almost all weapons are forward only arc:
Sit in one place like a MD and fire at your target. This will get you shot to hell very quickly, as you aren't dodging anything and don't have the defense of a MD. Having an ECM ship along to hide you would help at first, but that leaves you wide open to any Kluth in the area and it's not hard to see where an ECMed ship is if it's under 1000 GU.
Or you could move toward your target while firing, but this also gets you shot to hell quickly since you aren't dodging much at first, and even less after a few seconds when the range is gone.
You could also make short attack runs on an enemy, but you'd have to break it off after a couple shots and turn around to avoid getting too close. This severely limits the amount of damage you can do since there's only 4 cannons that are not forward only arc (1 F/L/R, 1 A/L/R, 1 L/A, 1 R/A) and is perhaps the worst option, unless you're simply doing it to annoy/harass someone.
Yes I get it, it's an artillery ship. But look at it this way, so are missile ships and they all have full 360 arcs, and the HC/Border Cruiser can do the same job only better since they can actually maneuver while firing due to good side coverage. Not to mention the Border Cruiser has it's own ECM so it can hide itself without having to drag a 2nd ship along.
I'll agree with Kenny and Fridge in that the original config was the best one, it just needed a tweak to the firing arcs so 4 out of 5 couldn't be used broadside. It already had energy issues when moving while firing so it couldn't keep it up for very long, and with Frigate style armor (1f, 1a, no sides) and 1 layer of shielding it would die rather quickly against anything larger than a Frigate that got close. It was truly a glass cannon, good firepower, negligible defense, and good maneuverability due to the lack of armor.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-24 10:38
More Cruiser testing from the 22nd that I forgot to post right away.
A Border Cruiser with 1 layer of active and one layer of reactive was not only hulled but almost killed by one Siphon alpha, and probably would have been a 1 shot kill if I wasn't rotating shields, it had something like 20% hull left. A Combat Destroyer would've been left in similar condition, a ship one hull size lower.
If the Strike Cruiser is supposed to be a superweapon then why does a SC with 4x AWM barely damage a stock Hive faster than it can repair itself once hulled? It eventually got down to about 60% hull then I started running out of ammo. And no, it was not at a depot planet, and did not even need to cloak.
HC is good aside from the general ineffectiveness of shields.
AC is good aside from the general ineffectiveness of shields.
Guppy/Toad are good aside from the general ineffectiveness of shields.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-05-24 11:04
Strike Cruiser is not meant to be a solo pwn mobile.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-24 13:14
Nobody's asking for it to be one, but with +24% damage barely able to make any headway against hull vs a stationary Kluth target with no enhancements and not sitting at a depot planet?
It's billed as an artillery ship that's supposed to be able to wreck larger targets in exchange for having poor side/rear arcs and being vulnerable up close, but it does not perform that way in actual use. 2 of them can take on a lone Dreadnought or Station, but the same can be said for any of the other Cruisers. It's a gimmick ship.
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Gerlach
Marshal
Joined: May 07, 2010
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2011-05-24 15:17
I know dreadnaught layouts is the most discussed topic right now, but I would like to go back to cruisers for a bit. Mostly to the Heavy Cruiser, probably soon to be ICCs most used combat ship.
First of all the layout and firing arcs.
Dropping missiles for more heavy guns and torpedos was a great move for both higher damage output at maximum/middle range and lower server CPU load. Having multiple guns able to fire in 270° arcs helps with ammo management a lot, only shared ammo pool can make it slightly better. I also like the increased focus on broadsides which ICC combat ships so desperately need when kiting in a dogfight and remove the need to make countless dives towards a slow moving or stationary enemy.
Now let's have a look at the torpedos. As I've said in another thread not long ago a HC pilot probably won't get many opportunities to fire those, there is only one launcher on each side able to fire sideways, these will get to shoot the most. The rest will get their spotlight only when the pilot will be able to close in when he is not under fire or to finish off a damaged ship when on its tail. So in general broadside fire is the best way to deal damage when you are over torpedo range.
NOTE: Torpedos deal decent spike damage, but have trouble hitting ships smaller than a cruiser.
Endurance and energy management.
I will put these two together because shields and speed are directly related to energy. There are two ways a HC can endure damage and those are evasion and shield rotation. Their ratio is roughly 50:50. It can evade a decent amount of enemy fire and even take some if not possible to avoid it. It's not as durable as the combat dreadnough or nimble as destroyer, but holds a significant edge in terms of keeping range over the dreadnaught and firepower/endurance over the destroyer. However, getting into cross/focus fire can cause a fast death. As I've noticed it also got one extra Aux Generator. This is another nice change, combat speed now rised very close to maximum speed and it also enables the HC to regenerate 1 shield arc at ~17.5 gu/s, two or one + firing guns at ~10.5 gu/s. But, and this is a general problem, in a combat environment including lots of enemy fighters and/or missles with enough ECM cover, constantly running ECCM is a must, so there is another possible source of energy drain which also eliminates the ability to ping. A combined K'Luth fleet with a Ganglia or two can get really hard to fight against. I also strongly recommend to swap at least the two full arc lasers for pulse beams, set to pd and never touch them again. Pulse shield is unrealiable and a moderate energy sink, use only when really necessary.
Let's get back to taking damage a bit. A single alpha from an EAD, Siphon or a Ganglia will get to your hull even with shield rotation, because it can't make up for the damage burst. This actually means a single good point jump or a cloak ambush may force it to leave the combat, unless the pilot wants to take the risk to be destroyed by another alpha or two.
Conclusion.
From my point of view the new M-230A Heavy Cruiser is a good improvement of the old one, nicely balanced middle~long range combat ship able to counter a broad group of vessels, but needs to keep an eye on enemy point jumps and ambushes.
A few words on other cruisers.
Border Cruiser - a nice addition for other cruisers as ECM/ECCM cover, pure long range, but poor durability and prone to energy trouble
Missile Cruiser - dump missile destroyer, it loses energy very fast and deals way less damage compared to this, also dump missile dreadnaught as well, it's too slow for new missiles and their reduced range
Strike Cruiser - I will let this one to other players, I didn't test it myself, right now I consider it only as a fire support, but I think the missile cruiser does much better job in this
A NOTE for Border/Strike Cruiser: I recommend to swap all gauss guns for rails, base damage difference between them is hardly noticable and 200 more gu range + (hidden) hull damage bonus + slightly faster projectile are still not worth the energy problems they cause.
Last words and toughts.
I guess the ICC will probably have a bit less trouble with UGTO if they place enough cruisers on the battlefield. Against K'Luth, well... Good luck!
[ This Message was edited by: Gerlach on 2011-05-24 15:36 ]
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