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General Discussion: 1.670 (Beta) |
Azreal Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 2816 From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2011-05-04 17:17  
So, if I am reading this correctly, if you have a core weapon, you fire it twice as fast, for half the damage? So...really nothing has changed much there.
BUT, what about the energy usage? Has it been changed? I sincerely hope not. I want to see these machine gun QST - and SI-ers flopping around for energy. You KNOW they will just stack rate of fire enhancements on their ships.
Also, I don't get the removal of bombs from the TOP trannies. Its as if we aren't supposed to use them. They actually had a purpose for a change that worked well with the game. Its not as if trannies were op. I understand this desire to specialize everything, but I still don't see this large player base that ya'll seem to keep imagining is here to do all this specialization with. All it will do is make a person have to swap his bomber scout or frig for a tranny after he takes out your inf. I can see it slowing things down, but I hardly see that as an improvement.
And for torps. Splash seems ok, speed is nice, still need the damned tracking back tho.
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The Fridge Chief Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008 Posts: 559 From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2011-05-04 17:21  
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On 2011-05-01 14:52, The Fridge wrote:
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- Halved the damage and doubled the fire rate of all core weapons (Stellar Incinerator, QST, Ion Cannon) - effectively reduces single volley damage while keeping the overall DPS of these weapons. Ammo has been adjusted where applicable.
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Surely the opposite is needed.
Core weapons are the Grand daddy's of the cannons.
There designed to get past the thick armour and hull of Capital ship/Dreadnoughts and stations.
Increasing rof will lead to them hitting smaller ships easier as they'll be more of them to dodge.
Ion's now make walls of undodgeable fire. where as before you could somewhat "dupe" them into the other direction. but now they fire so fast that they are following your dodging path even more precisly. This is the same for krill's SI and probably the Uggies EAD.
Sure this means there is more, bigger bangs = more action.
But it's not needed.
Plus no word on velocity bug?
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2011-05-01 16:29 ]
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Still waiting for a answer or a link to the answer.
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-04 18:06  
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On 2011-05-04 17:17, Azreal (Ret) wrote:
So, if I am reading this correctly, if you have a core weapon, you fire it twice as fast, for half the damage? So...really nothing has changed much there.
BUT, what about the energy usage? Has it been changed? I sincerely hope not. I want to see these machine gun QST - and SI-ers flopping around for energy. You KNOW they will just stack rate of fire enhancements on their ships.
Also, I don't get the removal of bombs from the TOP trannies. Its as if we aren't supposed to use them. They actually had a purpose for a change that worked well with the game. Its not as if trannies were op. I understand this desire to specialize everything, but I still don't see this large player base that ya'll seem to keep imagining is here to do all this specialization with. All it will do is make a person have to swap his bomber scout or frig for a tranny after he takes out your inf. I can see it slowing things down, but I hardly see that as an improvement.
And for torps. Splash seems ok, speed is nice, still need the damned tracking back tho.
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The RoF is based on how much energy per tick a gadget charges and what it's maximum charge is. IE, if a weapon has 1000 energy cost and 10 charge rate, it would take 100 ticks for it to charge.
All we did was half the energy cost and half the damage, so the energy cost for core's is still very high. This was done so that smaller ships have an easier time dodging core weapon hits. Firing them, whilst looking neat and machine gun-like, will find yourself running out of energy at the same rate.
As far as tracking torps go, I'd love to add it back, but the game doesn't really allow for it, as once the target disapears (via ECM, Cloak, or other means) the projectiles do to. At some point in time I might delve into the smart projectile code and see if I can make it head along the last known trajectory, but it's a lot of code to change and I'm not familiar with it; so for now, you'll have to do with the increased accuracy - I hope this is enough.
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Reznor Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-04 19:57  
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On 2011-05-04 18:06, BackSlash wrote:
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On 2011-05-04 17:17, Azreal (Ret) wrote:
So, if I am reading this correctly, if you have a core weapon, you fire it twice as fast, for half the damage? So...really nothing has changed much there.
BUT, what about the energy usage? Has it been changed? I sincerely hope not. I want to see these machine gun QST - and SI-ers flopping around for energy. You KNOW they will just stack rate of fire enhancements on their ships.
Also, I don't get the removal of bombs from the TOP trannies. Its as if we aren't supposed to use them. They actually had a purpose for a change that worked well with the game. Its not as if trannies were op. I understand this desire to specialize everything, but I still don't see this large player base that ya'll seem to keep imagining is here to do all this specialization with. All it will do is make a person have to swap his bomber scout or frig for a tranny after he takes out your inf. I can see it slowing things down, but I hardly see that as an improvement.
And for torps. Splash seems ok, speed is nice, still need the damned tracking back tho.
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The RoF is based on how much energy per tick a gadget charges and what it's maximum charge is. IE, if a weapon has 1000 energy cost and 10 charge rate, it would take 100 ticks for it to charge.
All we did was half the energy cost and half the damage, so the energy cost for core's is still very high. This was done so that smaller ships have an easier time dodging core weapon hits. Firing them, whilst looking neat and machine gun-like, will find yourself running out of energy at the same rate.
As far as tracking torps go, I'd love to add it back, but the game doesn't really allow for it, as once the target disapears (via ECM, Cloak, or other means) the projectiles do to. At some point in time I might delve into the smart projectile code and see if I can make it head along the last known trajectory, but it's a lot of code to change and I'm not familiar with it; so for now, you'll have to do with the increased accuracy - I hope this is enough.
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How's that any different from missiles? I'd rather have them track 90% of the time. The only real concern with them detting themselves is with K'luth, and if they're cloaking you aren't going to be doing much more damage to them anyway.
The problem with torps is that unless they track, you DO have to get closer. That puts cruisers in killing range for dreads. Vs stations it's no problem, but killing dreads at 500gu+ is harder without those torps tracking.
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Enterprise Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-04 20:26  
Argh. That sucks. Torpedo tracking back would have made all those torpedo based cruisers lovely.
Gonna have to settle for knife fighting with them, which I guess isn't exactly horrible.
Feel bad for K'luth though. Good luck hitting that barn house.
-Ent
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Pakhos[+R] Chief Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 1352 From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-05-04 21:25  
Once we are in friendly device todo list like pulse wave and flux wave; Can we set ecm to encounter eccm pinging?
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-04 22:03  
Pulse Wave now only affects the enemy's projectiles and has a 65% chance of destroying each projectile it hits.
NO!!!
why??
you mean, it only has a 65% chance of destroying each projectile it hits... LAME
if this is some side affect of not hitting freindly projectiles take it back.
... at the rate this game is going, in a few patches your camera will be locked to top down veiw, zoomed out, game play spead up 10x, and some cheasy techno music playing as you rabish enemies arcade style [ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-05-04 22:06 ]
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Jim Starluck Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001 Posts: 2232 From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2011-05-04 22:33  
Yeah, sure, Defiance, whatever.
No ship has more than 8 missiles on the new layouts. 65% of 8 is an average of 5 missiles taken out, leaving you 3 to shoot down yourself. Everything from Destroyer on up has at least 2 full-arc beams, leaving just one missile.
Jack and I tested this in Beta, with me in a UGTO Missile Cruiser and him in an ICC Assault Cruiser. Between this and the high effectiveness of point-defenses I could barely touch him.
Cry some more.
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*FTL*Soulless Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010 Posts: 787 From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-05-04 22:52  
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On 2011-05-04 22:33, Jim Starluck wrote:
Yeah, sure, Defiance, whatever.
No ship has more than 8 missiles on the new layouts. 65% of 8 is an average of 5 missiles taken out, leaving you 3 to shoot down yourself. Everything from Destroyer on up has at least 2 full-arc beams, leaving just one missile.
Jack and I tested this in Beta, with me in a UGTO Missile Cruiser and him in an ICC Assault Cruiser. Between this and the high effectiveness of point-defenses I could barely touch him.
Cry some more.
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what about those pesky 0 sig fighters that are ohh so common in MV....
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SpaceAdmiral Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-04 22:56  
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On 2011-05-04 22:03, Defiance*XO* wrote:
Pulse Wave now only affects the enemy's projectiles and has a 65% chance of destroying each projectile it hits.
NO!!!
why??
you mean, it only has a 65% chance of destroying each projectile it hits... LAME
if this is some side affect of not hitting freindly projectiles take it back.
... at the rate this game is going, in a few patches your camera will be locked to top down veiw, zoomed out, game play spead up 10x, and some cheasy techno music playing as you rabish enemies arcade style
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-05-04 22:06 ]
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A few pulse beams already take care of pretty much anything.
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Cory_O Grand Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2010 Posts: 104
| Posted: 2011-05-05 00:16  
Yeah... One of the icc's pd destroyers (cant remember what its called) loaded with as many pulse beams as it will hold can stop an obsene amount of missiles and fighters... I mean really, its kind of rediculous. Tried it out one time and icc facerolled ugto because they (icc) sat inside of a dictor on a planet (what they call planet hugging when ugto does it) and rained missiles down on ugto while i shot down around 75% of everything coming towards icc. Getting someone to actually fly one of those is a whole different story though
I think this is a fair tradeoff to allow you to not shoot down your own missiles and fighters, making it an enormously better v overall in large battles especially.
We will see how it works when it is released, if it really sucks as much as you think it will than they will fix it.
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-05 00:18  
Whatever guys. What were loosing in defence is traded to
>ugto firepower.
you know what they say. best defence is a good offence.
I recoment replacing full arc beams (at least two of) with pulse beams to negate the new pulse sheild shortcoming. Workes great.
also as was pointed out to me, Your pulse sheild no longer killes friendly tgts, so were free to use it more often. This is overall a +.
Great job Jim.
sorry about my initial responce.. but i posted that befor we talked about it.
Also ping reveals 0 sig fighters
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*XO* on 2011-05-05 00:22 ]
_________________ Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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BackSlash Marshal Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 11183 From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2011-05-05 07:34  
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On 2011-05-05 00:18, Defiance*XO* wrote:
Whatever guys. What were loosing in defence is traded to
>ugto firepower.
you know what they say. best defence is a good offence.
I recoment replacing full arc beams (at least two of) with pulse beams to negate the new pulse sheild shortcoming. Workes great.
also as was pointed out to me, Your pulse sheild no longer killes friendly tgts, so were free to use it more often. This is overall a +.
Great job Jim.
sorry about my initial responce.. but i posted that befor we talked about it.
Also ping reveals 0 sig fighters
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I was the one who made the decision, as I mentioned above in why I decided to do it. You can replace beams yourself if you wish, but the layouts won't be changing, as they don't need to.
I suggest instead of whining and making silly remarks, that you try out the changes first. Pulse Wave has a 15 second cooldown, doesn't effect friendly projectiles, and has a 65% chance to knock them down. That's a straight up 65% damage reduction of all incoming Fighters and/or Missiles every 15 seconds.
When we tested this against UGTO, we discovered that it severely diminished any chance of them using their missile ships, and whilst we focus ICC to have more of that role, it doesn't mean it's exclusive to them.
You have to realise that UGTO are the only real target for smart projectiles in the game. K'luth can cloak to mitigate them, and ICC could simply pulse them all away. I'm still fully aware of K'luth cloak, and when I find a way to make missiles carry on toward their last known position, that's what will happen. However, that's a harder cookie to solve, and for now, we're all happy with the Pulse Wave change.
If you want to QQ about it being a stealth UGTO buff, go a head, but unless I see a log of you logging into beta to try it out beforehand, your comments will be removed.
Trolling with stupid replies will not be tollerated in these types of topics.
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-05-05 08:44  
A; I appologiesed for my initial responce
B; I admited that it was a good idea
C; I gave thanks
D; This is english general, not beta discussion
i dont believe this is some sort of plot to kick icc down.
also the replacement of full arc beams, was a suggestion to players. Not to layout change.
again. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
On another note; Liking the new missile drive flares. Look good.
HC is the bomb
strike cruiser, though i was sceptical first, turnded out to be an amazing ship.
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DiepLuc Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010 Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-05-05 11:21  
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| On 2011-05-04 16:06, BackSlash wrote:
All weapons have a point value with the new layout scheme, based on their intended usefulness. When we changed a lot of ships, what we saw were that ships with a heavy use of a certain weapon weren't as useful as we had thought (Torpedoes for example). We're addressing this by buffing or nerfing the weapons to where their point value reflects their usefulness.
I should also mention that, and by no means does this mean it was changed so UGTO could be uber, we also discovered that a number of UGTO ships (namely the Missile-based ones) were totally useless against ICC because of the Pulse Wave. This goes some way to remedy that issue, and to restore glorious balance into the game! |
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Then the cap point missle/fighter on UGTO should be at half value as it is on ICC or Kluth I think. Since the value of missle/fighter on UGTO is not as high as ICC and KLuth, will the MC be added more weapons to keep on line with other faction or should we consider missles/fighters is UGTO disadvantage?
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| On 2011-04-30 20:59, BackSlash wrote:
Due to the speed and range of F torps, they don't require a splash. However due to the lower speed of the P torps (only 5 gu/s faster than the AM) and the 20%~ less damage compared to the AM torp, it makes sense to give the P torp some splash, since they're expected to be used further out in engagements when compared to the K'luth. |
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To be honest, UGTO players shall be on top of FF because of this. I think 20gu is big enough - that's double the size of a cruiser! [ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2011-05-05 12:41 ]
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