| Author |
(Suggestion) mine layer changes/removal |
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
|  Posted: 2011-05-02 23:25
i was just thinking.
and i relise we got a completely useless gadget that is rarely if at all used.
mines.
maybe we should just remove the gadget and replace it with just one gadget that lays a mine field based on the weapon level of said gadget.
either that or just remove the thing why would you a ship layout on something that really isn't being used anymore. (apart from kluth and even then rarely)
constructive critisim please i haven't suggested something thats very hard and it doesn't need to be done.
just wanted to know what people think about it.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-02 23:45
Maybe only for UGTO.
Cos Kluth do use their mines to good effect.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-05-02 23:49
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:45, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Maybe only for UGTO.
Cos Kluth do use their mines to good effect.
|
|
only ever seen one kluth use mines in my time in this game 
no ugto and no icc either.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-02 23:54
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:49, jamesbob wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:45, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Maybe only for UGTO.
Cos Kluth do use their mines to good effect.
|
|
only ever seen one kluth use mines in my time in this game
no ugto and no icc either.
|
|
Not lately. Soon maybe once the new cruisers are made official, and the mines are buffed again.
There used to be at least 4 Scarabs running around the servers mining the Shrooms as Kluth dreads pounded them. That was abt a year back. Less these days, but let's wait for their return.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-05-02 23:55
I use mines every now and then when I'm really bored, but yeah, they're rarely used by anyone aside from a few Kluth because they just don't do enough damage to make it worthwhile.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2011-05-02 23:58
The way I see it, mines are like depthcharges: Useless unless you're in front of a ship that's slower then you and can't attack you.
Mines need the hedgehog equivelent: Being able to shoot them a small distance around you so you can hit those subs.
er, cloaked k'luth.
_________________
|
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-05-03 00:00
ok so i think we all agree the mines need changing or removing.
why not just make it they lay a dot minefield (damage over time).
basically a minefield with health so that ships with scanners can still disarm them 
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-03 00:34
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:55, Talien wrote:
I use mines every now and then when I'm really bored, but yeah, they're rarely used by anyone aside from a few Kluth because they just don't do enough damage to make it worthwhile.
|
|
Not for ICC and UGTO, as I said. Dessie level mines are probably weak... add to that you guys are using TN mines, not AM mines.
Perhaps mines should be removed for the human factions, then refitted with other more useful weaps. Kluth mines are still working fine, esp with enh.
And no to minefields please. Those "damage over time" ideas are about as useful as the new planetary capture, which is to say it'll be BORING. It will take away the skill needed to lay mines or bombard the enemy with them, plus the ability to do direct damage and remote detonate as and when we need to.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-03 02:02 ]
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-03 02:04
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:58, Fattierob wrote:
The way I see it, mines are like depthcharges: Useless unless you're in front of a ship that's slower then you and can't attack you.
Mines need the hedgehog equivelent: Being able to shoot them a small distance around you so you can hit those subs.
er, cloaked k'luth.
|
|
You can attack a ship that's faster than you. You just need to know or predict where he's headed and be there ahead of him. You can even mine an enemy ship while flying head on into him. Then there's gate mining for ambush purposes. Mining the path between planets. Mining planets to defend against enemy trannies. etc etc etc.
So many possibilities.
Ironically, only Kluth use mines to good effect. So it's not really like depth charging....  More like laying submerged anti-ship mines.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-03 02:08 ]
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-05-03 04:42
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-03 00:34, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-02 23:55, Talien wrote:
I use mines every now and then when I'm really bored, but yeah, they're rarely used by anyone aside from a few Kluth because they just don't do enough damage to make it worthwhile.
|
|
Not for ICC and UGTO, as I said. Dessie level mines are probably weak... add to that you guys are using TN mines, not AM mines.
Perhaps mines should be removed for the human factions, then refitted with other more useful weaps. Kluth mines are still working fine, esp with enh.
And no to minefields please. Those "damage over time" ideas are about as useful as the new planetary capture, which is to say it'll be BORING. It will take away the skill needed to lay mines or bombard the enemy with them, plus the ability to do direct damage and remote detonate as and when we need to.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-05-03 02:02 ]
|
|
lol i never said it was going to be a very big minefield did i it will be confined to 50 gu with a increased dps about useful only for placing at the exist location of a gate. now that would be intresting sending a scout to see if a gate is mined.
and no offence but the only reason the new plantary control system is boring is because they nerfed the defences bases. had they improved defence bases instead of and i quote "following a series of complaints about lag be generated by defence bases by people that are either a 2 far from the server or b think that their graphic card is not the problem when it usually is we have decided to nerf bases" it wouldn't be as boring.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-05-03 07:16
Quote:
|
On 2011-05-03 04:42, jamesbob wrote:
lol i never said it was going to be a very big minefield did i it will be confined to 50 gu with a increased dps about useful only for placing at the exist location of a gate. now that would be intresting sending a scout to see if a gate is mined.
and no offence but the only reason the new plantary control system is boring is because they nerfed the defences bases. had they improved defence bases instead of and i quote "following a series of complaints about lag be generated by defence bases by people that are either a 2 far from the server or b think that their graphic card is not the problem when it usually is we have decided to nerf bases" it wouldn't be as boring.
|
|
Well, TBH, fighters and missiles cause more lag problems than mines at the moment.
Anyway, the new planetary control was implemented to reduce tranny rushing and also server overheads. It's bland and boring, that's for sure. Well, until the Devs can take another look at it to see how they can enhance it.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-05-03 07:50
Mines could use a huge AoE. Its incredibly risky to use mines in active combat (you're basically putting yourself IN FRONT of a big ship), they're incredibly easy to dodge (hey look, that minelayer ship is in front of me, gee I wonder what he's going to do), and when they do actually hit, it wasn't worth the effort.
Out of active combat though, you can be clever. You can lure a bigger ship to jump through your minefield, you can lay mines in front of gates and predictable jump paths. But its still very difficult.
There was time there were homing mines, but they never worked properly. It'd be useful if they did that, but I don't know the viability of it. If not that, a bigger AoE. If not that, a minefield that is the same amount of mines but covers a bigger area (spawning mines in a zone rather than just a line behind the ship).
Either way, Kluth can get the most out of it because of cloak, otherwise, human factions have to try incredibly hard. Not to mention that every faction doesn't have more than two ships really with mines at all.
I'm all for more tactical choices in the game though. Its just a tricky balance with mines because its too easy to make them overpowered, like with all tactical weapons (like flux and ELF), and its why they're so nerfed now. There was time mines could easily disable (and outright kill) a ship with a few of them.
-Ent
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-05-03 10:31
UGTO mines are useless, always have been. TN and AM mines are useful but unlike other ICC vs Kluth weapons (more range and no falloff vs less range and falloff) the AM is just superior to TN all around.
My problem with mines is how easily they're detected. IMO, they should be invisible unless a scanner is active or if you're so close they will probably detonate on you.
Mines are also the one weapon that really should not be subject to autoleveling. A frigate's mines are worthless, and destroyer mines not much better.
My suggestions:
1 - Make them invisible to the enemy except with scanners. No ECM or ECCM. Your own faction can see them.
2 - Remove autoleveling. All mines are equivalent to cruiser mines. Frigate and destroyer minelayers would be useful again. Number of mine slots might need adjusting to compensate.
3 - Replace the UGTO mines with a TN equivalent.
Also, am I not remembering correctly or did we at one time have homing mines? That could be a useful option again. I'm also a fan of a hedgehog launcher, but it wouldn't make much sense on a frigate that only has a few mines. A hedgehog would require an overhaul of the entire mine system.
_________________
|
Okkam
Marshal
Joined: February 06, 2008
Posts: 157
From: Dorset
| Posted: 2011-05-03 10:39
Mines are extremely useful and fun to use but I must say only to a K'luth player.
Many a time have I used the ICC mine laying destroyer only to find it really doesn't do much. Granted it is only a destroyer but unless you mine the gates a minelayer of that size and capability really doesn't succeed at anything.
The only reason the scarab is a great mine layer is purely because it can cloak.
_________________
When the universe collapses and dies there will be 3 survivors; Tyr Anasazi, the cockroaches and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cockroaches...
|
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-03 17:30
Go to a well used gate. Stand still as a scarab and lay all possible mines. You should see about 5 diamonds when zoomed out. When an enemy smacks into these mines the blow will be way more concentrated. (Hulled a fully repped battle station to about 60-80 hull, can't remember)
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
