| Author |
(Suggestion) Weapons Weapons and more Weapons... |
SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
|  Posted: 2011-05-04 12:15
ok ill try and keep this brief.
You all know about the current weapons we have atm and most of us remember about the 1.483 weapons (it not about what you think Devs) well what about the current way for modding ships (ie EMP cannon for Particle cannon and Heavy Cannons for Heavy cannons) well what about instead of 2 variants you can choose from (Ie Heavy EMP for Heavy Particle and EMP for Particle cannon) why not add in a new varient called Light Cannon stats would be this
Light Cannon= Light dmg quick rate of fire (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
Cannon= Moderate dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy Cannon= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
Same with lasers/beams
light laser/beams= Light dmg quick rate of fire (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
lasers/beams Moderate= dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy lasers/beams= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
Again with Torpedos
Light Torpedos= Light dmg quick rate of fire (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
Torpedos Moderate= dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy Torpedos= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
Also the Missiles/Rockets
Light Missiles/Rockets= Light dmg quick rate of fire (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
Missiles/Rockets= Moderate dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy Missiles/Rockets= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
Could also do it with fighters
Light Fighters= Light dmg quick rate of fire (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
Fighters= Moderate dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy Fighters= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
And yes its the same for the Core Weapons
Light Core Weapons= Light dmg quick rate of fire. (1 normal weapon for 2 Light)
Core Weapons= Moderate dmg moderate rate of fire
Heavy Core Weapons= Heavy dmg slow rate of fire (2 Normal for 1 Heavy)
Remember your still only able to change light for light, cannon for cannon, heavy for heavy
My first idea was to say that with these new cannons you would have a point system just like you have with the utility Ships where you got a set amount of Points to spend on the ship (almost like MechWarrior but you cant change the layout) so what i was thinking is this using a mock point system shown below but prolly not going to be realistic. (this would be Devs job of setting them) The 4 Examples will be Dread Based (but not restricted to them) and they are the ICC Missile Dread the UGTO Elite Assault Dread the K'luth Krill and the UGTO Battle Dread.
Now before i do explain these i will place a bog standard stock setting is that everything is Standard EVERYTHING (this would create the middle of the scale)
"WARNING NOT ACTUAL SET UPS"*
UGTO Elite Assault Dread
- 1x Tachyon Drive (Not Changeable)
- 4x IE Drive
- 9x Standard Armor
- 1x Cannon = 2x Light
- 4x QSTs = 8x Light = 2x Heavy
- 8x Torps = 16x light = 4x heavy
- 3x Beams = 6x light = 1x heavy and 1x beam/2x light
- 18x Lasers = 36x light = 9x heavy
UGTO Battle Dread
- 1x Tachyon Drive (Not Changeable)
- 4x IE Drive
- 8x Standard Armor
- 4x Fighters = 8x light = 2x heavy
- 2x QSTs = 4x light = 1x heavy
- 2x IT Missiles = 4x light = 1x heavy
- 16x Cannons = 32x light = 8x heavys
- 8x lasers = 16x light = 4 heavys
ICC Missile Dread
- 1x Tachyon Drive (Not Changeable)
- 4x IE Drive
- 5x Active Shields
- 4x Composite Armor
- 6x lasers = 12x light = 3x heavy
- 2x beams = 4x light = 1x heavy
- 16x missiles = 32x light = 8x heavy
K'luth Krill
- 1x Antimatter Jump Drive (Not Changeable)
- 4x PIE Drive
- 8x Organic Armor
- 1x Cloaking Device
- 1x AHR
- 2x cannons = 4x light = 1x heavy
- 7x SI = 14x light = 3x heavys + 1x SI/2x light
- 15x Disruptors = 30x light = 7x heavys + 1x disruptor/2x light
and the dmg should be easy to calculate as well, heres what it could be like:
ALL Light Weapons = 500
ALL Standard Weapons = 750
ALL Heavy Weapons = 1000
Also if you were to have a Mix of every thing then it would be a number between 500 and 1000 and wont go above 1000 (unless you have enhancements)
This also could lead to NEW SHIP LAYOUTS bringing a new lease of life
Also as a note this will lead to ships suited for the job without the hassle of 1.483 as with this example a
Standard dread will be ok against ships above and below their retrospected hull class (the balanced set up)
Light Dread will be focused for hull classes below dread and weak against ships of a hull class higher than dread (meaning it still be good for dreads and below** and weak against stations and higher***)
Heavy Dreads will be more focused for hull classes above dread and weak against hull classes below dread classes (meaning it be still good against dreads and stations but weak against anything below dread)
Bare in mind this could work just as well with the Engines and Armor.
P.S Please dont say you dont do this because you do its the came with the Factions example
Defence starting from Light to Heavy
K'luth
UGTO
ICC
Weapons starting from Ligth to Heavy
ICC
UGTO
K'luth
(There are another ones but I cant think of them)
*Meaning from what i can remember*
**Meaning it will still have a cut off point (no affect) of the frigates and below**
***Meaning if Darkspace Ever thinks about adding anything bigger and meaner than the Station
now i have touched on the armor abit earlier so here what I think could happen and yes it would apply for shields too
Light Armor = 1x Standard for 2x Light (Quicker to repair but lower hitpoints)
Standard Armor = 2x light for 1x Standard (balanced between repair and hitpoints)
Heavy Armor = 2x Standard for 1x Heavy (Slower Repair but Higher Hitpoints)
ok sorry it didnt turn out to be as breif as i wanted but i did get all my ideas out so please discuss and please give me feedback on what you think and yes the Devs would have to rethink the point system around my idea to a point.
SaturnShadow
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GalaxyFalinzin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 06, 2008
Posts: 28
From: On a boat... somewhere.
| Posted: 2011-05-04 12:27
You have my seal of approval!
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2011-05-04 12:37
Because ICC loses it's factions trait with fast and light weaponry which are present in rail's and Pulse beams
and you reintroduce missile spam with "Light" missiles.
Sorry.
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2011-05-04 12:38
Slightly confused, the purpose of having this ability is to Mod ships to deal with fast moving, light armor targets and viceversa?
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SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
| Posted: 2011-05-04 13:05
ok granted while adding all my ideas in i didnt think about the missile spam
as an update to the my suggestion
Missiles can only be swapped for Heavy Missiles
Rockets not too sure
Now as you asked about ICC in a way being nerfed then you would be wrong
the way im looking at it is that as i set the Standard as the middle and to be honest im trying to base this all on the set up we have now ICC will STILL be the fastest firing and still have the Lightest weapons only differance is this:
all factions would have slower than normal and faster than normal so your factions retain the unique ablilites so heres how i see it
ICC light would be Faster than icc Normal (also weaker)
ICC Standard
ICC Heavy Would be about the standard of UGTO
UGTO Light Would be about the standard ICC
UGTO Standard
UGTO Heavy Would be about the standard k'luth
K'luth Light Would be about the standard UGTO
K'luth Standard
K'luth Heavy would be slower than kluth normal (also stronger)
also as an edit
this would allow for some of the player of 1.483 to create their ships like back in that time not all ships would have the same firing rate example is that ive seen players have some lvl 5 weapons some lvl 10 and some lvl 1 weapons all placed on the same ship was quite effective (was more effective when you could mix and match the weapons with kluth icc and ugto placed all on one ship)
[ This Message was edited by: SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness) on 2011-05-04 13:15 ]
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Cory_O
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 15, 2010
Posts: 104
| Posted: 2011-05-04 13:20
I am all for the idea of new weapons ( i would love to have some type of super high rate of fire very low damage weapon like a gatlin gun or something) but i dont think this is the way to go about it. You can easily achieve these things with enhancements to an extent.
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Olympic
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2010
Posts: 13
| Posted: 2011-05-04 14:01
I hate to put a downer on ur suggestion.. i do like it, i really do!
But dont you think the screen if full enough of icons for weapons..?
If they do even considor this..
It means all of the icons for these will have to be re-designed
and re-mapping the weapons for the ships meaning alot of time
for the devs..
and its quite simple really..
Dev's dont have time for this kind of stuff as their list of "things to do"
is already as long as toilet paper. Expecially because the Devs work
part time with living thier lives and working in their own jobs ect.
Plus Jack will just outright condem this idea because he is "Evil" and
never does "put-downs" in a "nice" way..
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SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
| Posted: 2011-05-04 14:27
you could always do it this way
when replacing the weapons for example
when changing standard with heavys you then lose icons
when changing for lights you keep the same amount as u do with the standard but only differents is you get little 2 in the bottom right corner of the icon saying when firing that weapon your firing both light weapons and you could have different settings with the light weapons and below will be the examples
by either right or left clicking you can change the setting of how the weapon fires so the standard setting would be both cannons will fire at the same time or you can have it firing alternately example is normal cannons if u manually fire one cannon then manually fire another is the kind of setting im on about so the 2 settings im on about is
1. Fire both at the same time
2. Fire one at a time (almost constant firing)
ultimately you can lose icons but you cant add more than what the amount of the standard setting have
[ This Message was edited by: SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness) on 2011-05-04 14:29 ]
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2011-05-04 14:50
i dotn think adding More Weapons will be any good, The ships are currently going a loadout changes, adding more weapons will just complicate the balance, add a clutter of icon (as said before in this post)
and truth be said, i dont think we need any new size variant weapons. Pretty much useless and too much work for little and for what we can already accomplish with what we have
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-05-04 20:02
Giving K'luth the ability to do MORE damage in LESS time? Yeah, they're OP enough as it is, so no-go for me too.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-05-04 20:14
I'm all for more weapons, but not like this.
What I want is more options, like particle and emp cannons. Imagine being able to get different types of torpedoes, etc.
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-05-05 03:56
Quote:
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On 2011-05-04 12:37, The Fridge wrote:
Because ICC loses it's factions trait with fast and light weaponry which are present in rail's and Pulse beams
and you reintroduce missile spam with "Light" missiles.
Sorry.
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ummmm if this idea was ment for all factions you wasted your post with your moranancy.
considering icc weapons would just fire much faster XD
and the only time someone may actually swap to a light version is either.
1. to try to cause massive amounts of lag (requires a fleet)
2. to get rid of anorying smaller vessles (again kinda useless when you can just have 2 guys point jump resulting in instant death)
3.to hose a area with fire power to find a kluth (again not much point as people really really prefer more firepower as aposed to more energy usage)
however transfering to the heavy varient however.
1. more damage per hit to slower firing speed (add some enhancements and noone will notice the slower firing rate)
2. makes weapon multis all the more effective.
as such while the factions strengths would still remain. it would give dread players the ability to double their effectiveness against certain craft which its only advantage is either its cloak or its smaller size or its faster rate of fire.
example a dread is not supose to be able to hit a frigate unless it gets to close same with a destroyer.
your giving more incenstives to use dreads and less to use smaller craft.
i doubt a mod would aprove this
(i reserve the right to edit this post)
[ This Message was edited by: jamesbob on 2011-05-05 04:01 ]
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SaturnShadow™ *FC*(Angel Of Darkness)
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: February 03, 2007
Posts: 310
From: UK
| Posted: 2011-05-05 09:57
well i only put this out there due to us ALREADY having heavy cannons.
also if you also remember in 1.483 we had the weapon leveling system and each time you changed the weapon level the rate of fire got slower and the damage the weapon could do got higher.(this is how i would base the light standard and Heavy weapons on where for example light would be level 1 standard would be level 5 and heavy would be level 10 and you would just scale it for each ship class)
As I said in my past posts if you went all Light or viceversa you would only be able to kill (within certian time frame) ships below your hull class but would lose in a dread Vs dread combat where as if you were all heavys you wouldnt beable to take the smaller ships out unless they DID get right up close to you as this system would be too slow to fire and TRACK smaller ships but would beable to hit dreads and stations (due to their size and speed)
As stated before and will be shown below
Light weapons would be quickest rate of fire LOWEST damage output Best tracking and fastest speed (thus it be best for smaller ships BUT what you gain in speed you lose in damge and would have the firing power/damage of lets say a destroyer*not set in stone but could be worked around so for each ship class the light weapons will bring the damage down to about the destroyer level or one class above devs can work this out* but with more weapons of the ship) in other words your taking your dread class weapons off your ship and placing destroyer class weapons on instead.
Standard would be the middle of the 2 so in retrospect it be the normal of what the ship would be set at
Heavy weapons would be the slowest rate of fire HIGHEST damage output WORST tracking and slowest speed (thus being only able to track dreads and stations and beable to hit them and only JUST able to hit the cruiser class ships) this would be in retrospect taking your dread weapons of the ship and placing STATION grade weapons on it.
now to me this looks real clear and that is you all know about Navy ships in Real Life they have the same thing with their ships where they have a set loadout and every so often they change the loadout where they take aload of small weapons out and replace them with bigger guns and Viceversa.
This is what im trying to do with these ships im not just looking at the names of the weapons im looking at the SIZE as well and if you want BIGGER weapons you lose the amount you can have on your ship. Now heres a REAL LIFE Example and the stats were taken from the battleship Yamato
Armament
Yamato's main battery consisted of nine 46 cm (18.1 in) 45 Calibre Type 94 naval guns — the largest calibre of naval artillery ever fitted to a warship.[21] Each gun was 21.13 metres (69.3 ft) long, weighed 147.3 tonnes (162.4 short tons), and was capable of firing high explosive or armour piercing shells 42 kilometres (26 mi).[22] Her secondary battery comprised twelve 155-millimetre (6.1 in) guns mounted in four triple turrets (one forward, one aft, two midships), and twelve 127-millimetre (5.0 in) guns in six twin mounts (three on each side amidships). In addition, Yamato carried twenty four 25-millimetre (0.98 in) anti-aircraft guns, primarily mounted amidships.[21] When refitted in 1944 and 1945 for naval engagements in the South Pacific,[5] the secondary battery configuration was changed to six 155 mm guns and twenty four 127 mm guns, and the number of 25 mm anti-aircraft guns was increased to 162.[23]
now you could say this was ARMED to the TEETH but it only did specific things
what im trying to say is that YES you get more Weapons but at the cost of being able to take out BIGGER ships
the same with the bigger guns you are able to take out the BIGGER ships but at the cost of NOT being able to hit the Smaller ships
now with lighter weapons they are also smaller in size with standard weapons they are normal to your ship and with heavy weapons they are also BIGGER in size
here is how it stacks up
light weapons means more of them due to their small size
standard mean they are the normal amount of weapons your ship SHOULD have
heavy weapons means there will be less of them due to their Large size
NEW NOTE
now if you still think this is a BAD idea then fine BUT you could still used this idea for MORE SHIP LAYOUTS and maybe incorprate the new ship designs that ive seen
so instead of CHanging the existing layout you can ADD new ones into the game
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The Fridge
Chief Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: December 13, 2008
Posts: 559
From: In Your Fridge, Eating your Foods.
| Posted: 2011-05-05 10:06
Quote:
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On 2011-05-05 03:56, jamesbob wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-05-04 12:37, The Fridge wrote:
Because ICC loses it's factions trait with fast and light weaponry which are present in rail's and Pulse beams
and you reintroduce missile spam with "Light" missiles.
Sorry.
|
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ummmm if this idea was ment for all factions you wasted your post with your moranancy.
considering icc weapons would just fire much faster XD
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ICC weapons are already close to "undodgeable" at ranges under 600 or so.
These proposed Light weapons increases the range.
Means Uggies now have the current ICC weapons reload and undodgablity, while also having no ammo limit.
My moranancy? is reserved for Friends chat, speaking of which you are not currently on my list.
[ This Message was edited by: The Fridge on 2011-05-05 10:07 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-05-05 10:10
Okay, while on the face of things this looks like an interesting idea, it misses the point behind heavy weapons.
Essentially, heavy cannons and such were implemented for two reasons: Firstly, to reduce the number of gadgets on a ship, since essentially one heavy weapon is equal to two normal weapons.
Secondly, it reduces the number of shots flying around, which reduces lag and server stress.
Finally, thanks to the hull scaling system, smaller ships have "light" variants of weapons automatically without the need of a new gadget.
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