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a kick to scenarios |
SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
|  Posted: 2011-06-08 01:19
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On 2011-06-07 21:22, General Zod wrote:
The day shipyards were introduced was the day scenario was no longer much fun.
Scenario used to be packed, with both or all three teams fighting over the key planets. It was the "complete" game where you had to do everything, vs the MV which is just combat.
I haven't even been in scenario since the new planet system. I can't imagine it's any fun at all.
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Scenario was fun, you had small ship harass, epic battles later on, maybe a 16 vs 16 epic fight, or maybe 10 vs 10 vs 10 if there was kluth. You had people build, people for the most part respected engineers. Since most of the time fights were faster and people died under concentrated focus fire people for the most part cared less about prestige.
Basically in a game where the community is already small, instances pull the community close allowing for more epic fights and less lulls in combat. Also there were few depo planets, and they were used to repair broken ships, not as a fortress. This was achieved by simply not attacking the deop, instead going for a flag which forced a response. Larger planets had worth in what ships you could field.
Granted there were more faction imbalances back then but it was fun overall. This and people pulling out over 9000 dreads at a time were the only problem, the spawn rate should be reduced but with this new system the rate wasn't reduced, it was killed.
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P2.
Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 140
From: Bahia Blanca, Buenos Aires, Argentina
| Posted: 2011-06-08 07:50
Oh my God
I know what happens.
It makes no sense for me to follow this thread.
Your are analizing the scene with the mindset of experienced players and I think the same thing happens to the developers.
Will not improve, only get worse.
Forgot how it was when they started playing.
Those who forget their own past; ruin your future.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-06-08 08:06
Scenario is obsolete, and we've been aiming to remove it and incorperate the fun aspects of it into the MV for a long time now.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2011-06-08 10:17
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If one team gets enough of them, they can just station steamroll.
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NO STATION STEAMROLLING!!!! FFSBLAFGHLMGFKJMNGFLGG!!!!!!
ship limit! 1 station only!
[ This Message was edited by: Ravendark on 2011-06-08 10:18 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-06-08 10:30
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On 2011-06-08 08:06, Pantheon wrote:
Scenario is obsolete, and we've been aiming to remove it and incorperate the fun aspects of it into the MV for a long time now.
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Not sure it can be done, unless planets regularly have to be captured and built from scratch, or the MV layout is changed daily.
I'll list what I found fun about scenario:
1. Everyone crammed into same map.
2. New map at regular intervals. Even before the timer the map changed frequently.
3. Start from scratch every map.
4. It's a mad scramble in the beginning of a map to capture and build the key planets. Your team has to work fast and efficiently. Beginning stages of maps were IMO the most fun. That mad dash to rush transports and engineers to the key planets was a blast, like a galactic chess match.
5. Good engineers are vital. You don't have engineers, you lose. This also means defending them, although there was a time when they could defend themselves.
6. Lots of small ship combat while planets and resources are slowly built up. It's not dreadspace or stationspace.
7. It used the old resource system and no shipyards. That's important.
8. Each new map you had an opportunity to play a different faction.
9. You learn and become skilled in every aspect of the game, and scenario engineering especially is an entirely different skillset from MV engineering.
10. All this means scenario was the complete game. Every aspect of the game was contained and demanded in one map. Your team couldn't afford to ignore any part of the game, like planet capping or engineering, or you lose.
These days you don't even have to earn your badges right? Aren't badge stats shared when grouping? I've always been against that. I've always said prestige from grouping should be bonus prestige only, and that badge stats should be earned by doing the task.
[ This Message was edited by: General Zod on 2011-06-08 10:58 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-06-08 11:27
I was going to post something similar to what Zod did, but since he already pretty much said what I was going to I'll just point out that scen would only be obsolete if there was literally no difference between it and MV. Things like planets that actually orbit their stars and the navigational hazards they present make it fun, AI Transports/Engineers are actually USEFUL instead of being nothing but a pain in the ass, and needing to have situational awareness at all times since the entire map is a combat zone are just a few.
Scen can be a lot more fun than MV at times.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-06-08 11:54
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On 2011-06-08 08:06, Pantheon wrote:
Scenario is obsolete, and we've been aiming to remove it and incorperate the fun aspects of it into the MV for a long time now.
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Fun parts about scenario:
Actual objectives. Capturing flag planets results in an outcome, in this case, moving onto another map.
Ships matter. You start from scratch, so you have to use every ship in tiers until you get to the big ones. Even then with such limited resources, it forces you to use them wisely. No dread/station spam.
Enhancements are temporary. Everyone has a level playing field.
Centralized combat. Eveyrone is on one map, no need to fly across the universe to shoot something.
So then, how do we bring this to the MV?
Well Ive always had a bit of a wild idea.
We could have the persistent MV as we have now combined with the centralization of the sceario server.
Such as, instead of an MV that is huge as it is now, you're only fighting over two or three systems. All factions would be involved at the same time of course. They are scenario battles in the sense that youre now fighting in one section of the MV at a time.
So! Then you get objectives. You designate certain win conditions (flag planets in all systems belong to one faction, map is over.) Then it moves onto another map, and so on. Essentially you'd have something along the lines of a story, depending on who wins, it determines the next map and you essentially fight towards a home system without well, a huge giant map in the way.
Ships would transfer across maps, (though cost full resources when you first take them out). And if its possible, the systems themselves would still be persistent, in the fact that if one faction wins but then loses and you go back to the previous map, it would remain unchanged (and the opposing factions would have a time limit to swing it back in their favor).
Big change? Oh yeah. But thats how I envision bringing scenario and the MV together in a good way. Right now with no objectives, with no good point to planets, and the fact you really dont lose ships, the MV is just a giant sandbox where its hard to find combat anyways.
You have all these systems that go unused, all these planets that never get touched. And there is no reason to, except for the hell of it. Until that changes, the MV will remain somewhat lifeless.
I agree with the eventually elimination of scenario, but I also think the MV needs the same kind of direction that exists in scenario or it will never hold the attention of a sizable amount of players for long.
-Ent
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-06-08 12:33
I have a slightly different take on scenarios.
The thing is the current scenario maps are nothing more than 'start from scratch, build and conquer'. Every scen is the same other than the map and flavor text/story.
We know that DS has a history/lore leading up to the current day. What if, instead of simply making everyone build from scratch, we have historical battles instead?
Example (not canon, just a sample):
Battle of Luyten
(Description)
In the later part of 226x, UGTO made a major push into the Sagittarius sector. The objective was to secure a forward operating base for a push into ICC occupied Cassiopeia. Bla bla bla.
The two forces clashed in the Luyten system, watched by the Kluth from the neighboring Eridani system bla bla bla...
Order of Battle:
UGTO-
1 Support station
2 EADs
2 BDs
4 Battle Cruisers
ICC-
1 SCB
2 ADs
etc etc etc
Kluth-
2 Siphons
2 Krills
etc etc etc
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So basically the idea is to make this a 'historical' scen battle, with the set pieces already in place. You already have shipyards or built up planets in the systems, and some uncaptured planets which you will have to build up.
You CANNOT build any ship bigger than destroyers. Anything cruiser class and above are in the order of battle. If it says your faction have 2 EADs, then you can only have 2 EADs at any one time.
The number of ships are predetermined and the players will have to pull them on a first come first served basis. Think of them as class limits, just like in popular shooter games. So if 2 players have pulled out 2 EADs, the other players will have to settle for the other remaining ships in the order of battle.
If a particular ship is destroyed, then it will be eliminated from the game, and the player will have to settle for the remaining ships that are not deployed yet.
Alternatively, another idea could be.... once a ship has been destroyed, it could be out if the game for 5 to 10 mins before being made available in the battle order list/pool, in the form of "reinforcements" arriving.
This way, no one can spam big ships, and there is a role for a mixed fleet that you can't get in the MV.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-06-08 12:36 ]
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Ray[OU]
Marshal
Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 189
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
| Posted: 2011-06-08 12:57
scen is ok yes i agree its boring and stuff and also you shud not limite the ranks who can go there cuz sometimes i go there i just want to get away from fighting the same ppl in the same placesover the same planets so i go to scen pick i nice planet build it and after that i get a big ship and camp at my planet and gard it till scen ends or ill remove the SY and replace it with a less important building and leave scen tho i do hate those who come in there while your building and bother you and you ask them nicely to leavw you alone and they dont there shud be a rule bout that in scen if some one ask you to leave them alone they shud leave you alone tho most times its empty thus nice and quiet but sometimes its not theres a few noobs in there but i just tell them ill get my station out if they dont leave me alone at that point they leave me alone and go kill AI some where and sometimes ill see anothe player in there we tell each other wat planets where gonna take and we leave each other alone thats good thing but to those players that go in there and bother me after if asked nicely to leave me be hundreds of time they shud be requirerd to not be allowed to attack enggys and or trannys that is my idea in scen no attacking trannys and or engineers i have completed my statment......
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-06-08 13:48
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On 2011-06-08 12:33, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
I have a slightly different take on scenarios.
The thing is the current scenario maps are nothing more than 'start from scratch, build and conquer'. Every scen is the same other than the map and flavor text/story.
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Problem is scenario now, and for a long time, has not been the way it used to be. When there's a lot of players the "start from scratch, build and conquer" gameplay is a lot of fun and quite hectic.
I like Ent's idea. It's like an enhanced scenario, and I'm in favor of having persistent garages in a scenario-like game. There's no reason to wipe them out so long as they can't be spawned without the proper requirements, which used to not be the case (not sure if it is now, haven't been in scenario in a long time). I also like the idea of revisiting previously played/built maps as a story line is determined. Save the map's current state, and if it comes up again depending on the story line it's played from that state and not from scratch again.
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Bombg
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2011-06-08 20:36
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On 2011-06-08 08:06, Pantheon wrote:
Scenario is obsolete, and we've been aiming to remove it and incorperate the fun aspects of it into the MV for a long time now.
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<3
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Xydes
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 276
From: England
| Posted: 2011-06-09 13:14
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On 2011-06-07 13:44, P2. wrote:
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what am i doing wrong in scenario ??
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the objetive is to learn
when you learned you can go to mv
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Wrong! The objective in the Scenario is usually clearly given. (Capture all flagged planets) But the scenario can be USED to teach yourself to build, capture planets etc.. Its not a newbie training ground. Ursa Minor is a Newbie training ground.
Scenario is an ALTERNATIVE to the MV. Its not meant to baby sit the new players.
-DV
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