| Author |
[suggestion]change to station layout (or wormholes) |
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
|  Posted: 2011-06-24 21:11
the current wormholes are usually 2000-3000 gu of the target and have a minimum range of aprox 3000gu
a station going at 3,5 gu/s would need up to 14 minutes to reach its destination using the wh
so here are my suggestions:
- change wh accuracy to be closer to the set target
- increase wh range 200.000gu aint enough ( maybe 650.000gu so you can warp from one system to anoner one
- or give both, wh and jumpdrive to stations (if possible with shared cooldowns)
oppinions?
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2011-06-25 02:48
WH accuracy was greatly reduced to nurf WH fishing, the range was reduced on WH's cause in 483, you could hop, 2,3, even 4 systems if they were close enough, rendering gates useless. Of course that was in 483 when we had a nice map that made sence...
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Spiderbloke
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 05, 2008
Posts: 12
| Posted: 2011-06-25 10:10
Whilst I understand the issues with accuracy, a range boost is necessary if we want to see viable use out them. At best, with the current map layout you can only reach the edge of one system in a single hop.
Even if it was a range extension of a few tens of thousands, making them viable again would probably break the monotony many bemoan of. WH flanking manoeuvres were interesting and kept people of their toes. Now, it's a never ending cavalcade of gate camping.
I would also point out that gates would still remain a vital part of the equation, given their permanence.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-06-25 14:49
i'd prefer the 3rd option where you can use the wh for long range travel and to your fellow friends with you
but for accurate jumps you could use the normal warp (without the need to change it at a planet)
if possible, reduce the energy-need to recharge em by 50% but when you use one both devices must be recharged
(and wormholing to a gate + waiting for the normal warp is still faster than flying to a gate at 3,5 gu/s)
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-06-25 15:42
I'd prefer a more dynamic wormhole.
Essentially, the variables of what it does depends on how far you're intending to travel.
(this would also be cool if it applied to jump drives, but I'll add an idea on that at the end).
If this is even possible:
The farther you intend to travel, the more energy it costs. Wormholes consume energy on activation (or have a longer cooldown, whichever is more easily doable). This means an in-system wormhole costs far less than one outside the system and beyond. Minimum cooldown around 2 minutes, maximum around ten.
Which means also, it affects accuracy. On a sliding scale, wormholes inside the system approach within 750gu of its target, but outside the system, its closer to 5kgu. The farther you try to travel, the more inaccurate your wormhole.
Failure rate: Only if the wormhole has a great chance of appearing on an entity such as a player ship or AI, if the opening of the wormhole is ontop of another entity, or within the destruction zone of stars and planets. Otherwise, it should always be successful.
And it would be kind of nice if I could close a wormhole on command. A shift+J with a wormhole device will cause it to collapse, but doing so inflicts the maximum cooldown timer, no matter the range.
I think we should cap wormhole range as far as one system, which is at my last check averages around 400-500kgu.
-Ent
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-06-25 17:05
when last i was in beta, a scout could jump 700,000gu.
still like that?
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-06-25 21:00
if my memory is correct, even stations can warp up to 500.000 gu but they'll need somerhing like 5 minutes for it
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Blackjack [DBL]
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: February 25, 2011
Posts: 344
From: The land of venomous reptiles.
| Posted: 2011-06-26 21:07
only stations, supply ships and scouts can jump that far.
scout because of its low fuel consumption
stations and suppys because they can resupply.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-06-26 21:38
Quote:
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On 2011-06-24 21:11, NoBoDx wrote:
the current wormholes are usually 2000-3000 gu of the target and have a minimum range of aprox 3000gu
a station going at 3,5 gu/s would need up to 14 minutes to reach its destination using the wh
so here are my suggestions:
- change wh accuracy to be closer to the set target
- increase wh range 200.000gu aint enough ( maybe 650.000gu so you can warp from one system to anoner one
- or give both, wh and jumpdrive to stations (if possible with shared cooldowns)
oppinions?
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As Shadowalker said, WH accuracy was reduced to deal with fishing. There was a time when ppl would fish other stations and dreads into a nearby planet.
Another thing. With inaccurate WHs and a lowered speed, stations will now serve their role as support units, and not frontline tanks. The WH gen serves to open a gateway for your fleet to traverse through to the other side and then use their JDs or sublight engines to move to their objectives.
If you still want accuracy, use your HMA.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-06-27 05:33
im fine if the wormholes are multiple thousands gu of their target but i want something for it
right now (in beta) the wh have a minmum range of 3000gu and a maximum range of 200k gu if you change your normal warp to a wh you can be a great fleet support within a system
but the max range limit it to just the current system
if youre away from one of your sy-planets the wh show another problem
due to the inaccurate its nearly impossible to wormhole anywhere near anything( eg planet, jumpgate to switch sytems) and if youre unlucky, you bave to fly up to 3000gu with your normal sub-light drive which would take up to 14 minutes to reach it (3000gu / 3,5gu/s = 857sec = 14min)
thats the reason, why i want the layouts changed
and like i said i'd prefer that stations (and only them) get both, wormhole for fleet movement and warp for accurate personal movement the tradeoff would be the shared cooldown of both devices
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-06-27 05:39
Or should I put it more directly?
3.5 gu/s + Inaccurate WH. This was probably meant to be a NERF to OP stations so that they are used as they were intended to be. Support functions. Most players don't need nor want 5 stations pinpoint WH'ing into planetary orbit to mop up a fleet of ships there.
I only wish that besides the speed nerf, they also got less rep drones or armor.  Then we can get back to real ship vs ship battles.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2011-06-27 06:06
how long does it take to reload a wh/warp ? if im correct 2-3 minutes ( wh faster than warp and luth faster than humans)
with the change i want it would be like this:
- station make wh to gate (since wh dont cross systems) fleet + station move through wormhole (almost instant)
- fleet aproach gate station recharge wormhole & warp (up to 3min)
- fleet move through gate to scout other side/ make room for station
- station use warp to jump into gate
- station recharge wh/wd while feet protect it ( up to 3min)
- station make wh to next gate for fleet+station (nearly instant)
-> so to cross a system it would take something around 6-7minutes
with the current(in beta) system its like this:
- station make wh to gate (instant)
- station fly to gate (15min)
- station make wh to next gate (instant)
-> so to cross a system with a fleet would take 15 minutes and im sure nobody want to wait 45 minutes just to reach the othe side of the starmap
with the latest changes to the station (especially the speed-nerf) wormholes are useless now
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jamesbob
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 22, 2009
Posts: 410
| Posted: 2011-06-27 06:23
i have also noticed that the closer to the max range you are targeting the more likely it is to spawn where you want it to (give or take 500 gu and i haven't tested this in beta)
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2011-06-27 07:37
if a station has only 2% chance to be located conveniently close to the target, i think stations are ok. but if they have over 80% chance to be hopelessly far from their target (beyond even missile range), i think some help is needed here. what? me not know, im a noob
chance to spawn inside a zone (which includes the smaller zones) = radius^2 * 100 / (3000)^2. so chance to spawn inside the 2000 gu zone is 4'000'000 * 100 / 9'000'000 = 44.4 %
applies only to station WHD II (dread WHD II is 2.25x more accurate).
k'Luth stations do not get a better HMA/WHD II (think on it. station with 1.25x more warp speed and 25~% faster recharge - is it OP?).
WHD recharge time is less than 3 mins (about 2:30 - 2:45 minutes i think). there are some problems in device recharge for people who have fps/net latency issues (dark valkaryie im laughing at you...superdread JD doesnt take 9-10 mins to recharge).
[ This Message was edited by: Inactive-001 on 2011-06-27 07:41 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-06-27 12:09
Increase WH accuracy to what it used to be, and add a check that prevents them from opening if there's a ship in it's collision area at the far end (not the near end though, or it would be too easy to prevent a station from ever attempting to get away).
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