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Few suggestions about defense bases |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2011-07-31 12:34
Well the difference is cloak is an inherent ability of all Kluth. Things like ECM really can't be compared to it, but I do know what you're saying.
I've witnessed a few times where a single frigate can ruin a planet, and it's not in preparation for capture. If there's no platforms to PD the bombs, they're getting through and the frigate will not be seen doing it. Even sensor bases do not help (which is why I thought maybe their range should be increased, but no that's bad idea and doesn't solve the problem anyway).
In the old version, a sensor base or two would at least allow the planet to PD the bombs, even if the frigate remained hidden. Now, no. And bases do not automatically repair themselves anymore because for some reason colonists have no idea how to build or repair anything whatsoever, so a frigate can bomb, go rearm, come back and bomb, go rearm, come back and bomb, etc.
IMO ecm bombers do not fit anymore. The Kluth clavate is an exception because of it's cloak, but it cannot stay cloaked while bombing, and it's an ability all Kluth have.
The bigger problem though is bases. They need to be changed first, before anything is done about ECM bomber frigates.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-07-31 23:43
we never had, in 483 when you could cloud bomb a planet ( 1 perfect stack of bombs that glassed everything) luth ships could cloak and cover the bombers, but we still recived damage, only difference from the human factions was you couldn;t target the the luth bomber.
now in 1.67 our frigate bomber doesn't have the same ecm to hide its self from the planet like the human counterparts have. only thing we can do is cloak the ship to stop taking damage from the planet.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2011-07-31 23:46
Quote:
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On 2011-07-31 12:34, MrSparkle wrote:
Well the difference is cloak is an inherent ability of all Kluth. Things like ECM really can't be compared to it, but I do know what you're saying.
I've witnessed a few times where a single frigate can ruin a planet, and it's not in preparation for capture. If there's no platforms to PD the bombs, they're getting through and the frigate will not be seen doing it. Even sensor bases do not help (which is why I thought maybe their range should be increased, but no that's bad idea and doesn't solve the problem anyway).
In the old version, a sensor base or two would at least allow the planet to PD the bombs, even if the frigate remained hidden. Now, no. And bases do not automatically repair themselves anymore because for some reason colonists have no idea how to build or repair anything whatsoever, so a frigate can bomb, go rearm, come back and bomb, go rearm, come back and bomb, etc.
IMO ecm bombers do not fit anymore. The Kluth clavate is an exception because of it's cloak, but it cannot stay cloaked while bombing, and it's an ability all Kluth have.
The bigger problem though is bases. They need to be changed first, before anything is done about ECM bomber frigates.
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also ever since the planet capping system was changed over to the hold the zone type that it is now, the planet based PD doesn't fire,even when you have say 24% pd. now i know that each bomb has a /roll type of deal where it will either score a hit or miss, but there always a 100% hit rate on bombs.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-08-01 01:39
Far as I know the current PD system is damage reduction, the PD% means bombs and enemy troops will do that much less damage.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-08-01 04:56
The point defence percentage you see when targeting planets is NOT a rating of how much damage it inflicts to enemy ships; it's the amount by which damage to buildings and friendly infantry is reduced. At 50% PD, for example, bombs and attacking infantry will do 50% damage to the planet's buildings and infantry.
The damage dealt to enemy ships is entirely different, and bases that improve PD % a large amount will do less damage to enemy ships, and vice versa.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-01 05:06
BTW, ECM does reduce PD effectiveness doesn't it?
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-08-01 10:27
It shouldn't? The two have nothing to do with each other anymore.
I'm wondering if I should make a third suggestion here: PD changed to DR for bases (Damage Reduction - a tier 2 anti-bombardment base would show 6% DR). Since it does mean damage reduction why not call it damage reduction right? It would be a lot more clear what that % actually means. It's not PD anymore. PD is for ships; DR is for planets.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-01 11:40
Quote:
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On 2011-08-01 10:27, MrSparkle wrote:
It shouldn't? The two have nothing to do with each other anymore.
I'm wondering if I should make a third suggestion here: PD changed to DR for bases (Damage Reduction - a tier 2 anti-bombardment base would show 6% DR). Since it does mean damage reduction why not call it damage reduction right? It would be a lot more clear what that % actually means. It's not PD anymore. PD is for ships; DR is for planets.
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Maybe it should. Or it already is.
After all, since everything has moved to roll based, then how do you determine the detectability of the bombs be factored into the PD equation? It should. Otherwise what is ECM for?
Previously, if there was enough ECM, the planet couldn't even detect the bombs and they would sail straight in without triggering the beams. So I figure that the sig of the bombs should also be factored into the PD/bomb damage equation.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-08-01 11:41 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-08-01 12:14
The only thing I've noticed is that sensor bases allow plats to PD the bombs. With no plats though (which is almost always the case) even bombs with 1000+ sig get through with no problems.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-08-01 12:27
Sensor bases on planets do not contribute to the PD value of the planet. They only allow you to shoot down bombs or projectiles more easily around planets (also to fight K'Luth, or to counter ECM, w/e).
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-08-02 16:53
I'm assuming these suggestions will go nowhere, and so I give up.
Anyone who wants enemy planets to be dangerous to approach and difficult to capture is out of luck, I'm sorry to say.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-08-02 16:57
Quote:
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On 2011-08-02 16:53, MrSparkle wrote:
I'm assuming these suggestions will go nowhere, and so I give up.
Anyone who wants enemy planets to be dangerous to approach and difficult to capture is out of luck, I'm sorry to say.
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Only people who can't build and can't think for themselves are out of luck  .
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