| Author |
let see if we can help balancing the game |
µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
|  Posted: 2011-08-14 11:04
My observations about this game is that, it feels like it should only have 2 playable factions or a sci fi mmo where Mage, warrior, and rouge describe the dark space factions
UGTO - the Warriors, the tanks of the game this allows them to serve as the backbone of the game. But when pitted against the Mages they suffer cause mages strike from a distance. Against Rouges their speed becomes their downfall.
ICC - the Mage, their light defenses and long range attacks is great against the Warriors and the Rouges. it allows them agility and a temporary defense against a lurking Rouge or a charging Warrior.
K'luth - the rouges, they appear and strike then vanish causing alot of damage, this is the intended effect as it is very easy to perform. Rouges can kill a warrior or a Mage easly if they go unoticed. Their best ally is the shadows, but Warriors and Mages can defeat a Rouge if they remove teh advantage of the Shadows.
If anyone can improve this statement or correct me if i am wrong please do but as it stands this game is WOW except where each side gets the same abilties and defenses the classes and split into seprate factions that fight each other and if that is the case balance can never be achieved.
But IMPO the SS/Hive or what ever teh k'luth ss is should have fighters not missiles or fighters with missiles. Battle stations should not be Assault ships. they should be heavy standoff ships that can hurt a small strike force. meaning that they needs Heavy beams, Core/Torps, Cannons, and Missiles i would much rather see Battle stations with about 8 empty slots that allow the player to custom mod in what ever weapons/fighters they feel would do the job currently.
Think this over and you will see what i am talking about.
Also this is from playing too much WoW but thats what i see.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-14 13:31
A recap of ideas ive thrown out there. I don’t believe they have been properly reviewed
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AI dont contruibute to planet capture %
just saying, thought this was supposed to be the end of one man capturing planets... now he can do it several different ways, and without even bombing...
or make it so you have to have the majority of infantry on planet in order to start capture %
to combat the lone transport rusher, after 15 seconds of enemy infantry hitting the ground, audit their number compaired to friendly number. If its not within a certan % insta kill enemy infantry.
so if you drop 10 infantry on a planet that has 15, it will audit, and because enemy infantry is >= 75% of friendly infantry, they get to stay and fight.
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Why is it that UGTO gets something that totally negates an entire factions advantage? I’m talking about ablative armor and ICC. Ablative armor coupled with the 20% armor HP boost makes UGTO actually more defensive than ICC. When I brought this up in the past, I was always told to “close with them and use lasors”. If I closed and used beams and cannons and they had standard armor, I would inflict more damage but they would still have the advantage of firepower. So why close with them when they have ablative armor where they have advantage of defense and offence?
UGTO already holds a defensive advantage over ICC with the 20-25% armor HP boost. Couple this with specialized armor and advanced defense enhancements, and it becomes a ball of LOLs. This of course, does not even consider the 10% weapons damage nurf for ICC and bonus for UGTO.
My suggestion is to give ICC either choice of reflective or composite armor, or raise energy resistance of our shields and armor to put us back in line with defensive faction status quo. This will allow UGTO to keep their specialized armor and allow us to close with them and maintain defensive advantage. With the 10% buff debuff of weapons, UGTO would still maintain offensive advantage over icc at mid range. Some problems with this idea, is that if you make the changes to ICC strong enough to notice Vs UGTO, it may throw off ICC/Kluth balance. This does nothing to stop enhancement balance.
Or remove UGTO specialized armor for Standard, Heavy, Light variant. Heavy would be the 120% hp of now with a -10% maneuvering, and acceleration. Standard would be 100%HP with current maneuvering and acceleration. Light would be 80%hp with +10% maneuvering and acceleration. (may have to adjust those values to be more impactive. Light should put UGTO on same maneuvering plane as ICC. Couple this with making defense enhancements give a negative bonus to maneuvering and acceleration equal to one half of the positive bonus. (Advanced defense upgrade; +6% defense -3% maneuvering and acceleration)
Also leave K’luth armor alone. Their fine, even from the eyes of ICC. Their small ships are a challenge now for the first time since ive been here. I like where kluth is at.
Other enhancement balancing suggestions. (these apply to all levels of enh at a relational scale)
Advanced Beam multiplier; +6% beam damage -3% Recharge rate
Advanced Weapon Multi; +6% Weapon damage -3% Recharge rate
Advanced defense upgrade; +6% defense -3% maneuvering and acceleration
Advanced maneuvering jets; +6% maneuvering -3% defense
Advanced weapon accelerator; +6% range -3% damage
Advanced weapon cool/cond; +6% recharge rate -3% damge
Advanced engine tuner; +6% speed -3% energy reserve
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IMO realy good ideas that have been overlooked.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-08-14 14:15
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 13:31, *XO*Defiance wrote:
AI dont contruibute to planet capture %
just saying, thought this was supposed to be the end of one man capturing planets... now he can do it several different ways, and without even bombing...
or make it so you have to have the majority of infantry on planet in order to start capture %
to combat the lone transport rusher, after 15 seconds of enemy infantry hitting the ground, audit their number compaired to friendly number. If its not within a certan % insta kill enemy infantry.
so if you drop 10 infantry on a planet that has 15, it will audit, and because enemy infantry is >= 75% of friendly infantry, they get to stay and fight.
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Needing to have opposing infantry wiped out to begin capturing a planet is something I'd previously suggested as well, it makes sense if you think about it for a minute. Why would the inhabitants of a planet surrender if that fleet in orbit can't harm them in any way? No Bombers blowing up the friendly troops, no Transports dropping hostile troops and killing off the friendly troops, no planet cap.
The only issue with the audit thing is if someone is dumb enough to build a planet with only 1 barracks it deserves to get taken by one person dropping inf, or even by AI transports. A lot of people say "learn to play" regarding combat, but learning how to build properly is also part of the game.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2011-08-14 14:57
A few things I would like to point out:
UGTO has more short term defence potential, but in the long term ICC and possibly Kluth might have more defence. (For kluth it must take a really, really long time)
Standard armor is proly one of the slowest regenerating defence in game. It makes up for this in more HP. Shields can be rotated and have much higher regen, especially with defence mode and 1.67's rather high energy gen for combat/battle types of ships. So what does this lead to?
Standard armor synergizes with Dreads and possibly Cruisers, as they tend to finish fights quickly. Since the fight is short, the high HP of armor allows it to soak up damage, while shields/ahr have little time to work. This results in UGTO dreads charging in, smashing the enemy, and then winning. Ablative also falls into this category. It has tremendous stopping power vs ICC rails, but given time and tactical jumps/defence modes, ICC can slowly destroy the ablative, much like how water eventually erodes a rock. Unfortunately, people never want to play as water.
Shields and possibly AHR synergizes with small ships, which are intended to dodge most of the enemy fire and slowly but surely damage the enemy. Fights vs dessies and some cruisers may take long periods of time, where the regen really takes a great effect. An ablative dessie may be able to shrug off a cdessie's shots, but if it doesn't end the fight quickly enough the cdessie will prevail as its total hp regenerated will be more than ablative's resistances. Again, this requires a rather boring "water playstyle" which means very slowly chipping away the dessie and trying to avoid close ranges as much as possible, always running away.
Some tl'dr notes:
-Close range negates the regen advantage of ICC and Kluth, leading for UGTO to have better defences
-ICC may have to take a "water playstyle", wearing away at slow/no regen armor
-UGTO and armor synergizes with big ships that end fights quickly
-ICC and shields synergizes with small ships that draw fights out longer, dodging and regenerating
-Defence isn't all about hp, it is also about regeneration and dodging
-Your playstyle also helps determine your effective defence as regen and dodging is highly reliant on the player
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-14 15:51
class per class right now, stock ships, UGTO wins against ICC in single combat every time.
and thats with standard armor.
Every test ive done anyway.
not saying its impossible to beat UGTO by any means, but its still not even at the moment.
My main gripe with ugto, is their specialized armor for kluth and icc, when their standard armor already does so well against us.
I dont know about kluth, but ablative armor pretty much ensures you can take on two simular class ICC ships for your one.
and who the hell is going to sit around and let us play water the rocks... no one. I dont mean to sound pesimistic, but ive flown scouts against UGTO BDs in 1.5 and had better results than a boarder cruiser Vs BD in this current version.
on the flip side of this, ICC Vs Kluth is very ballanced right now even with the -10% weapon damage. Every test ive done with ICC Vs kluth class per class has ended with one party dead and the other at 3-10% hull. Any one thing done differently by either pilot would have changed who won. Very ballanced. Very fun. and very rewarding.
UGTO ICC ballance is no where near right.
ive even seen kluth say its easier to blow up icc ships than it is ugto ships...
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-14 16:03 ]
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2011-08-14 21:41
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 15:51, *XO*Defiance wrote:
class per class right now, stock ships, UGTO wins against ICC in single combat every time.
and thats with standard armor.
Every test ive done anyway.
not saying its impossible to beat UGTO by any means, but its still not even at the moment.
My main gripe with ugto, is their specialized armor for kluth and icc, when their standard armor already does so well against us.
I dont know about kluth, but ablative armor pretty much ensures you can take on two simular class ICC ships for your one.
and who the hell is going to sit around and let us play water the rocks... no one. I dont mean to sound pesimistic, but ive flown scouts against UGTO BDs in 1.5 and had better results than a boarder cruiser Vs BD in this current version.
on the flip side of this, ICC Vs Kluth is very ballanced right now even with the -10% weapon damage. Every test ive done with ICC Vs kluth class per class has ended with one party dead and the other at 3-10% hull. Any one thing done differently by either pilot would have changed who won. Very ballanced. Very fun. and very rewarding.
UGTO ICC ballance is no where near right.
ive even seen kluth say its easier to blow up icc ships than it is ugto ships...
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-14 16:03 ]
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That is sad isn't it a dev gets mad he is losing and decides to nerf his enemy faction and buff the faction he plays i cry foul and will not play till i see the changes reversed,
BOYCOTT the hot fixes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-14 21:45
uuuhhh...
not my intention and nor do i support it.
Please alter your post befor this whole topic gets shut down.
Good energy in here.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-14 21:47 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-14 22:23
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 21:41, µOmniVore wrote:
That is sad isn't it a dev gets mad he is losing and decides to nerf his enemy faction and buff the faction he plays i cry foul and will not play till i see the changes reversed,
BOYCOTT the hot fixes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Oh the horror!
Go pull that tube out of your gut!
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2011-08-14 22:51
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 15:51, *XO*Defiance wrote:
ive even seen kluth say its easier to blow up icc ships than it is ugto ships...
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Its true, ICC is much easier to kill.
We have much less chance of surviving against UGTO, especially if there are a few EADs involved.
Unless we have 7+ krills online then it wont matter  but thats more rare since luth player acyivity has dwindled back down to norm recently
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-08-14 22:55
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 22:51, xTc-JSRSJ *XO2* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 15:51, *XO*Defiance wrote:
ive even seen kluth say its easier to blow up icc ships than it is ugto ships...
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Its true, ICC is much easier to kill.
We have much less chance of surviving against UGTO, especially if there are a few EADs involved.
Unless we have 7+ krills online then it wont matter but thats more rare since luth player acyivity has dwindled back down to norm recently
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We're Uggies now. Let's abuse the armor buff and spam EADs, SSs, and BDs like there's no tomorrow!
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-08-14 23:34 ]
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-15 00:48
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 22:55, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 22:51, xTc-JSRSJ *XO2* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 15:51, *XO*Defiance wrote:
ive even seen kluth say its easier to blow up icc ships than it is ugto ships...
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Its true, ICC is much easier to kill.
We have much less chance of surviving against UGTO, especially if there are a few EADs involved.
Unless we have 7+ krills online then it wont matter but thats more rare since luth player acyivity has dwindled back down to norm recently
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We're Uggies now. Let's abuse the armor buff and spam EADs, SSs, and BDs like there's no tomorrow!
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-08-14 23:34 ]
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thats not working out so well for UGTO...
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Viskel the Muffin Muncher
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2009
Posts: 38
From: Your Fridge
| Posted: 2011-08-15 01:30
Quote:
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On 2011-08-15 00:48, *XO*Defiance wrote:
thats not working out so well for UGTO...
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Shhhh, I want them to keep spamming Dreads. It makes using my dictor so much more fun.
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2011-08-15 01:37
Had some ICC vs UGTO action tonight. Felt pretty balanced to me. Tactics are king and decide the outcome of battle, not the type of ship. This is good, cause this is supposed to be a fleet tactics game.
Player skill also shines through now. Make the wrong tactical decision or fly the boat wrong for just a few secs, and your dead. Not only that, but the tide of battle changes as your temates are rrelying on ur just as you rely on them.
Havent been in this game near as long as some, but to me 1.67 feels pretty dang close to what DS should be: Tactical fleet combat
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Viskel the Muffin Muncher
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2009
Posts: 38
From: Your Fridge
| Posted: 2011-08-15 08:25
For ICC vs UGTO, it's decent, but there are still the problems of UGTO Destroyers and Frigates having too low of a firepower, and of UGTO Dreads having too much armor. The smaller ships need the 5% firepower buff I mentioned, and the Dreads need their armor buff removed. Right now, ICC Dreads can't fight the UGTO Dreads at all without getting absolutely demolished. They stand no chance, when they are of the same class. Kluth also destroys ICC, dread for dread, even without Kluth taking advantage of its cloak.
Ablative Armor is also still a problem. We were just lucky last night that UGTO were too silly to use it.
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