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Propulsion In Space |
CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
|  Posted: 2011-08-13 18:53
no top speed
Top speed for ships would be when the speed at which the propellent exiting the nozzle is equal to the speed at which the ship is traveling.
speed<------(=)------>thrust
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-13 18:56
Quote:
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On 2011-08-13 05:55, NZ-juex16 wrote:
Yes but if what your saying is right then how do astronoughts toss around 12 ton Satiltes with one arm?
Leds you to the first part of what Attack said
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becouse the mass of the shuttle is greater than the mass of the sattelite.
.... any more physics questions?
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2011-08-13 21:21
Quote:
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On 2011-08-13 18:56, *XO*Defiance wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-13 05:55, NZ-juex16 wrote:
Yes but if what your saying is right then how do astronoughts toss around 12 ton Satiltes with one arm?
Leds you to the first part of what Attack said
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becouse the mass of the shuttle is greater than the mass of the sattelite.
.... any more physics questions?
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danm wished i had seen this before ya
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MaGoo
Fleet Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: March 18, 2009
Posts: 79
From: USA
| Posted: 2011-08-13 22:55
Reading through all this ive found there are dumb people and smart ppl....but mostly dumb. some of you need to go back to the 9th grade.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-08-14 01:01
This would be a really weird game if it were realistic space propulsion.
So far I haven't found a 1st or 3rd person spaceship game with action-packed combat that's anything except flight sim-like characteristics in space.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-08-14 12:16
If it was realistic propulsion we'd also have fuel limits, and g-force indicators that tell us when our ships' crews are about to be splattered all over the inner walls.
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 01:01, MrSparkle wrote:
This would be a really weird game if it were realistic space propulsion.
So far I haven't found a 1st or 3rd person spaceship game with action-packed combat that's anything except flight sim-like characteristics in space.
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Homeworld 2 has several mods that use flight models based on newtonian physics, most notably PDS.
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Adapt or die.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-08-14 13:53
Quote:
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On 2011-08-13 18:53, *XO*Defiance wrote:
no top speed
Top speed for ships would be when the speed at which the propellent exiting the nozzle is equal to the speed at which the ship is traveling.
speed<------(=)------>thrust
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Alas, you're wrong there for a couple of reasons, primarily the ones about relativity and the conservation of momentum. Relativity says that there's no single reference frame and thus no absolute measure of speed, so I could say my spacecraft is stationary and the exhaust is moving away from me, which means there would be no point where my ship's speed (zero) equals the speed that the exhaust is moving away from me (which will be constant).
Conservation of momentum says that for every reaction there's an equal and opposite reaction, so if you throw mass away from yourself (propellant) you MUST gain an equal amount of momentum in the opposite direction. The only time when you have trouble is if you're in atmosphere (which slows you down by way of drag) or if you're using a ramscoop which collects fuel as it flies, and the act of scooping up interstellar hydrogen causes drag and places a maximum limit on how fast you can go (if the hydrogen coming in is moving as fast as your exhaust, you can't speed it up and thus you can't use it as propellant).
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On 2011-08-14 12:16, Talien wrote:
If it was realistic propulsion we'd also have fuel limits, and g-force indicators that tell us when our ships' crews are about to be splattered all over the inner walls.
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Fuel limits would be one of the main limiting factors in combat, since if you run out of fuel you're a) a sitting duck and b) on a one-way trip to oblivion. G-forces would most likely be less of an issue because warship designers wouldn't bother building a ship that can kill its own crew through violent manoeuvring. Engines that you never use are just wasted mass that could be used for cargo space, fuel, or guns and armour.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-08-14 14:05
no idea what your on about.
the only way to have an engine fire in space and it not move the space craft in the opposite direction (however minute) is to counter out the moving force with another. (drag, gravity, propulsion)
<----------=----------> stands.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-14 14:08 ]
when the sums of the forces pusing ---> equal the sum of the forces pushing <---- you have reached your crafts top speed.
this even applies on earth....
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Defiance and Opposition, a tribute to teamwork. I will remember always
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2011-08-14 14:22
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 13:53, Gejaheline wrote:
G-forces would most likely be less of an issue because warship designers wouldn't bother building a ship that can kill its own crew through violent manoeuvring. Engines that you never use are just wasted mass that could be used for cargo space, fuel, or guns and armour.
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You'd think, so but look at modern day jet fighters, several of them are capable of maneuvers that will cause the pilots to black out and even die if not corrected.
While I'm sure futuristic space warships would have safety measures to prevent that from happening, such safety measures would also likely have an override for desperate circumstances.
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Adapt or die.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2011-08-14 14:55
This is a game where you can't do such action in reality:
- Rotating and moving your ship to any desired direction anytime.
- Destroyed ship re-appeared in garrage.
- Ship doesn't need infantry to function but it is captured when red infantry occupied.
- Your ship doesn't fly backwardz when you fire any ammunition. And you can fire tracking missle.
- You can't crack planet with your weapon even your station is bigger than that planet. And you dock that greater-than-planet station into a shipyard which is tinier than your engine.
- You can lay mines.
- Planet resource is infinite. However, the maximum is limited.
- You can be banned from Universe.
You love these? Stay playing!
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seyyah
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 46
| Posted: 2011-08-14 16:51
In space there is no counter force to your movement so if your ship doesnt create one itself it'll keep moving and you will find yourself moving with full speed to a planet or nothingless... spaceshuttles have front thrusters which creates a coutner force to limit their speed or stop them (but there is also earts gravity and sprayed athmosphere with low density which helps) if you remove them your ship will continue to moving thanks to its momentum caused by mass and the power of that big engines and you cant control that movement. and I think anyone watched galactica saw that vipers and their maneuvers... common sense : if you dont put your hand in front of it ball will keep on rolling if you ignore the friction and thats what we have in space...
[ This Message was edited by: seyyah on 2011-08-14 16:53 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-08-14 18:52
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 14:22, Talien wrote:
You'd think, so but look at modern day jet fighters, several of them are capable of maneuvers that will cause the pilots to black out and even die if not corrected.
While I'm sure futuristic space warships would have safety measures to prevent that from happening, such safety measures would also likely have an override for desperate circumstances.
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The difference there is that aircraft have air to push off against, which makes it easy for them to push the envelope if they turn hard enough. Their need to be able to manoeuvre at low speeds means they have the capability to tear their own wings off at high speeds.
In space the only thing that will apply G-forces are your ship's own engines, which are entirely under the control of the ship's designers. If your ship explodes when you apply too much thrust, the simple solution is to not put enough engines on the ship to cause it to explode. Similarly, if the crew turn to jam when you apply too much thrust, the solution is to not put so many engines on the ship that you can kill your crewmembers. It doesn't matter how fast you're moving, the highest G's you can pull are limited by the size of your engines.
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On 2011-08-14 14:05, *XO*Defiance wrote:
no idea what your on about.
the only way to have an engine fire in space and it not move the space craft in the opposite direction (however minute) is to counter out the moving force with another. (drag, gravity, propulsion)
<----------=----------> stands.
[ This Message was edited by: *XO*Defiance on 2011-08-14 14:08 ]
when the sums of the forces pusing ---> equal the sum of the forces pushing <---- you have reached your crafts top speed.
this even applies on earth....
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Except that there's no drag in space. I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, what with the lack of a top speed in space.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2011-08-14 19:04
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2011-08-14 20:36
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 01:01, MrSparkle wrote:
So far I haven't found a 1st or 3rd person spaceship game with action-packed combat that's anything except flight sim-like characteristics in space.
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Independence War 2, hold CTRL to shut off computer-assist thrusters and use WASD to override the speed controls.
Combat is pretty tense, given the "shield" mechanics in the game.
[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2011-08-14 20:38 ]
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Kaepora
Fleet Admiral
Joined: February 08, 2011
Posts: 77
| Posted: 2011-08-15 00:27
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 20:36, Sardaukar wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-08-14 01:01, MrSparkle wrote:
So far I haven't found a 1st or 3rd person spaceship game with action-packed combat that's anything except flight sim-like characteristics in space.
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Independence War 2, hold CTRL to shut off computer-assist thrusters and use WASD to override the speed controls.
Combat is pretty tense, given the "shield" mechanics in the game.
[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2011-08-14 20:38 ]
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Alternitively, Evochron Mercenary also has a somewhat accurate system. Your ship has an automatic control system that enables you to have standard flight game controls, but you can turn it off and enable yourself to continually accelerate as much as you want.
More than once I "abused" the system to get someplace very fast, only to realize I didn't leave myself enough time to decelerate and SPLAT, I slammed against the atmosphere of a planet.
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