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New ship for marshal rank |
Kakashi Hatake Chief Marshal
Joined: October 18, 2009 Posts: 3
| Posted: 2011-09-21 17:27  
what about the idea to put krill on marshal rank and give it back its old weapons setup before the nerf of the 4 Si core guns? [ This Message was edited by: Kakashi Hatake on 2011-09-21 17:30 ]
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jimjimjaroo Grand Admiral
Joined: March 06, 2009 Posts: 308 From: Michigan, USA
| Posted: 2011-09-21 17:56  
might not be a bad idea. and maybe put the EAD on marchal rank too. thats overpowed(well maybe not overpowered) IF you put enhancements on it. just an idea.
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Gejaheline Fleet Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005 Posts: 1127 From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-09-21 18:24  
In my opinion, making the ship a marshal-rank ship would not particularly solve the issue where the krill is/was a) wildly out of character for the K'luth in the eyes of the developers (a super-battleship on a faction where the main focus is on close combat) and b) A wildly out of character superdread when the other two factions do not also possess wildly out of character superdreads.
Point a:
Each faction has two superdreads. One is an assault dreadnaught (siphon/EAD/AD), the other is a command dread. Superdreads get extra armour, hitpoints, and weapons and other devices.
K'luth have/had an extra superdreadnaught. No other faction has a third superdread. Presumably this is because K'luth are so focused on superdreads that they need a special one to show off what they're really good at.
And yet the Krill is not some kind of ultra-stealthy ultimate beam-weapon ship, instead apparently being some kind of turbo-charged battle dreadnaught which doesn't really fit in with the general K'luth philosophy of having hard-hitting close-range ships.
Thus, the question here is "why does the Krill go so much against its faction's design principles? Surely a superdread should be designed to play to the faction's strengths?"
These questions are not answered by promoting it to a marshal ship.
Point b:
UGTO do not have a super-missile-dread, because their combat tactics do not revolve around missile weapons and thus they would not put lots of time and effort into designing a superdread for the exclusive purpose of engaging in missile combat.
Similarly, ICC don't have a super-beam-dread armed with nothing but beam weapons, because they don't particularly subscribe to the concept of very close-range combat.
So this poses a question that covers the issue from the other direction: If the K'luth have a ship that is so out-of-character, why don't the other factions have one?
Again, this is not answered by making it a marshal ship.
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jimjimjaroo Grand Admiral
Joined: March 06, 2009 Posts: 308 From: Michigan, USA
| Posted: 2011-09-21 18:41  
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On 2011-09-21 18:24, Gejaheline wrote:
In my opinion, making the ship a marshal-rank ship would not particularly solve the issue where the krill is/was a) wildly out of character for the K'luth in the eyes of the developers (a super-battleship on a faction where the main focus is on close combat) and b) A wildly out of character superdread when the other two factions do not also possess wildly out of character superdreads.
Point a:
Each faction has two superdreads. One is an assault dreadnaught (siphon/EAD/AD), the other is a command dread. Superdreads get extra armour, hitpoints, and weapons and other devices.
K'luth have/had an extra superdreadnaught. No other faction has a third superdread. Presumably this is because K'luth are so focused on superdreads that they need a special one to show off what they're really good at.
And yet the Krill is not some kind of ultra-stealthy ultimate beam-weapon ship, instead apparently being some kind of turbo-charged battle dreadnaught which doesn't really fit in with the general K'luth philosophy of having hard-hitting close-range ships.
Thus, the question here is "why does the Krill go so much against its faction's design principles? Surely a superdread should be designed to play to the faction's strengths?"
These questions are not answered by promoting it to a marshal ship.
Point b:
UGTO do not have a super-missile-dread, because their combat tactics do not revolve around missile weapons and thus they would not put lots of time and effort into designing a superdread for the exclusive purpose of engaging in missile combat.
Similarly, ICC don't have a super-beam-dread armed with nothing but beam weapons, because they don't particularly subscribe to the concept of very close-range combat.
So this poses a question that covers the issue from the other direction: If the K'luth have a ship that is so out-of-character, why don't the other factions have one?
Again, this is not answered by making it a marshal ship.
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you do have a point there, but good questions, why dont they?
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Gejaheline Fleet Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005 Posts: 1127 From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-09-21 18:46  
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On 2011-09-21 18:41, jimjim578 wrote:
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On 2011-09-21 18:24, Gejaheline wrote:
So this poses a question that covers the issue from the other direction: If the K'luth have a ship that is so out-of-character, why don't the other factions have one?
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you do have a point there, but good questions, why dont they?
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Because, as I explicitly stated not two paragraphs above the question in question, it's kinda stupid for factions to have super-ships that are good at whatever the faction is traditionally bad at. If you're not very good at something, you're not going to have super-ships that are awesome at that something, are you?
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Flux Capacitor Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010 Posts: 305 From: the place
| Posted: 2011-09-21 19:59  
special weapons, more variation between ships, seem interesting
+ people want a marschall ship
the repping field was thought up this way...
ugto dont hit up close but mid range, and are defensive. so special should be defense field that acts like enh bonus to all ships in range, or a targeting system (no weapon falloff, and/or beam/weapon range increase
icc suppose to be long range, and always need ammo. an icc dessie party is fun but firepower sucks then. an artillery ship with a super hvy projectile, as an expert station killer or long range sniper for orbitting ships, would fit that philosophy i think, especially when ecm'ed by allies
of course luth as cloaking hit and run need signal surpression field, or biochemical energy recharger nanobots to revive energy after those 2 alphas, and/or a jd recharger drones slot, like a repair drone
of course marshall and CM can also b reserved to command ai in the future, so that marshall is minimum range....in that case these ideas might b to much. they might b anyway. maybe its to late and i shouldnt b typing. maybe....this is the MATRIX!! anyways...might b good ideas
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-21 22:24  
I'd rather move the stations up to M and CM rank.
Command stations, Battle stations (and their equiv classes) - M rank
Support stations- CM rank.
That's cos SS's are inherently more useful (and dangerous to the enemy)
U want an end to station spam, this will do it. Now we won't see 2-bit or half-witted FAs flying stations.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-09-21 22:25 ]
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Pakhos[+R] Chief Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 1352 From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2011-09-22 00:13  
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On 2011-09-21 18:24, Gejaheline wrote:
1-K'luth have/had an extra superdreadnaught. No other faction has a third superdread.
2-So this poses a question that covers the issue from the other direction: If the K'luth have a ship that is so out-of-character, why don't the other factions have one?
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1- And 2 other factions can fly dreads at rank of VA. Kluth can't.
2-You must be out of your mind. Best close combat ship in this game is EAD. So by your logic , ugto shouldnt have the EAD as it is.
Be honest, you guys suck at balancing.
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Painfulangel Grand Admiral
Joined: December 26, 2009 Posts: 188 From: Exathra
| Posted: 2011-09-22 01:43  
Many people have came up with a similar idea, some have said why not a super dread or a super station, but that could give a faction a major advantage to the other factions... so if this were to happen one marshal and cheif marshal ranked player would have to be on each faction, if not the game fairness could be changed really fast.
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CM7 Midshipman Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009 Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2011-09-22 02:17  
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On 2011-09-21 22:24, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
I'd rather move the stations up to M and CM rank.
Command stations, Battle stations (and their equiv classes) - M rank
Support stations- CM rank.
That's cos SS's are inherently more useful (and dangerous to the enemy)
U want an end to station spam, this will do it. Now we won't see 2-bit or half-witted FAs flying stations.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2011-09-21 22:25 ]
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not saying we ever fly stations to the ponit of spam... but PB has more chief marshals in it than all of ICC's Chief marshals combined. Then you have wolf, and AoD. UGTO simularly have a huge ammount of chief marshals. ICC? we have 8 chief marshals now... and only a few of those are active.
Just saying.
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Reznor Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 316
| Posted: 2011-09-22 03:59  
So am I the only one that thought the Krill was horrendously broken?
Load it up with weapon multi's, and you pretty much had a "Kill anything within 800 GU" with no falloff SIs.
Of course, all of the K'luth factions was horrendously broken until 1.7...
2 AHR on dreads? Thank god you eventually came to your senses. Best decision I've ever seen in DS in all my time playing it.
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Kenny_Naboo Marshal Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010 Posts: 3823 From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-22 04:22  
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On 2011-09-21 17:27, Kakashi Hatake wrote:
what about the idea to put krill on marshal rank and give it back its old weapons setup before the nerf of the 4 Si core guns?
[ This Message was edited by: Kakashi Hatake on 2011-09-21 17:30 ]
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Heh.
Yeah, I would've preferred it to go back to its old layout. 6 forward SIs, not much cannons or beams.
I found it strange too that they set it up with 8 SIs. LOL. That caused the QQ to go through the roof. And you just know how much IQQ likes to... well ... QQ.
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Gejaheline Fleet Admiral Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005 Posts: 1127 From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2011-09-22 05:03  
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On 2011-09-22 00:13, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
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On 2011-09-21 18:24, Gejaheline wrote:
1-K'luth have/had an extra superdreadnaught. No other faction has a third superdread.
2-So this poses a question that covers the issue from the other direction: If the K'luth have a ship that is so out-of-character, why don't the other factions have one?
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1- And 2 other factions can fly dreads at rank of VA. Kluth can't.
2-You must be out of your mind. Best close combat ship in this game is EAD. So by your logic , ugto shouldnt have the EAD as it is.
Be honest, you guys suck at balancing.
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1: K'luth have traditionally had a higher rank requirement for many ships in comparison to their equivalents on the other two factions, presumably because they tend to have a relatively high amount of firepower and lots of nifty gadgets in comparison. Thus, the dreads that are VA for UGTO and ICC are admiral-ranked for K'luth.
This does not, however, justify why the Krill can be a marshal-ranked superdread. In fact, it seems to suggest the opposite; K'luth already have high-ranked dreads, maybe they should have some lower-ranked ones.
2: Since I could easily find quite a few people who completely disagree with you, you're going to have to back that up with more evidence than an unsupported assertion.
If you didn't get the memo, by the way, UGTO are meant to be good at close combat, what with the short-ranged guns, the massive amounts of armour, and the general lack of nimbleness. The EAD will probably win in a spacebar-mashing contest, yes, but that's why the other factions have things like cloaking devices, better manoeuvrability, and so forth. This is not, however, a discussion on how to kill EADs or how the EAD is overpowered. The Krill is not the equivalent to the EAD, that would be the siphon. Feel free to start a thread about how the siphon is terrible in comparison to the EAD.
And, to be honest, slinging around insults is not going to make people suddenly think "Oh gosh, you're right! Your telling me that I suck has completely changed my outlook on life! I agree with you completely!"
Keep it civil please.
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SPaRTaN Z Chief Marshal
Joined: June 26, 2009 Posts: 235
| Posted: 2011-09-22 06:38  
AD Owns EAD.
Twice as much power,. bout the same amount of beam damage output.
EAD with rings touching the enemy kills itself more than the enemy, although AD @ 150 gu of EAD will die...
Fight like an uggie, die like an uggie
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Pantheon Marshal Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001 Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-09-22 06:41  
An overpowered ship is overpowered, regardless of rank.
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