| Author |
New ship for marshal rank |
Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
|  Posted: 2011-09-26 04:15
so we are all afraid of SI? havent heard the EAD with 20 QST coming along...
I thought there was "sanity check" with a point system, making sure core weapons are limited. Meaning 12 SI on a krill would decimate any beams as well, ur ecm is gone, and u lost 4 armor layers maybe. if u still like 12 SI on a kril then....be my guest:)
i sense....a super-pinger cruiser!
I think ppl want to create more combinations and ship specializations just to have some more options in game. it feels a bit straightforward atm
_________________
my signature is awesome
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2011-09-26 07:21
As stated before, full on ship customization was tried before. It was a disaster. People are drawn towards min/maxing, so people create naturally what is the strongest - and then you find people using nothing but this. It brings down the game.
Secondly, its been stated before, Marshal and CM ranks are just for bragging rights. Same for Platinum badges. Though I would like it if some existing ships got some increased restrictions...
As it is, the primary roles of every class are covered. Adding more ships means more balance headaches. And we don't even need them. I doubt we'll ever see Marshal or CM ships, but even if we do, don't expect them to be anything but novelties.
-Ent
_________________
|
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-09-26 07:52
There will be no return of the customisation system, period. There is little point discussing it.
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2011-09-26 07:59
Re: Stations at Marshal/Chief Marshal.
It'd prolong the issue of Stationspam quite a bit. Not all Chief Marshals still play. Most don't, I reckon. Once you get there you've rather seen it all.
I disagree with taking a ship from people, though. You should always avoid taking a ship people have invested in from them. THis suggestion is completely impractical and unethical.
Re: Ship Customisation. It's a lie.
Hold up before you fly into arguments. In Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition, to take a nerdy yet popular example, you have feats which improve your character. There's over a hundred to pick from, but at level 10 you will have 7 or so.
Theoretically you get 100*99*98*97*96etc different variations of characters with feats alone.
Sadly, this is an illusion. One of those feat slots will be dedicated to an Expertise, one of the feat slots is dedicated to a Defence feat, and often one of them will also be dedicated to Weapon Mastery. Depending on your class type, another 4-5 feat slots will be taken-- oops, you really don't have manoeuvring space to really customise as much as you like without being ineffective against monsters of your own level.
The same with DarkSpace ship customisation: it's a lie. Present enough different options, and players will gravitate to find The One Option, which will become a stock figure among the fleet/faction and before long, you wonder if it wouldn't be easier if the staff'd just default configurate each ship to its ideal. Then for newbies, you'd suggest limiting exceptionally bad combinations... until we arrive where we are now.
Re: Krill. Overpowered piece of crap that never should have been in the game in its previous state as-is.
The argument has been made that Krill is "helpless" against Cruisers and below, but was unrivaled in battles between Dreadnoughts. Stop yourself and think for a moment: why should the fielding of one ship demand either number superiority from the enemy, or force them into smaller ships, for which they STILL need number superiority?
The Krill could defeat any Dreadnought one-on-one, without too much trouble. At the very least, it cannot be destroyed one-on-one, and it can often flee only after dealing more damage to the enemy ship than that it sustains itself.
This is a broken concept. Please understand that. That it was able to do so at range and, thus, realistically the only faction that could counter it was the ICC (due to UGTO's aforementioned lack of ability at sustained long-range combat) meant that it was further broken. When you take into account the Krill could deliver its heavy payload in short time, where ICC are really more of a Damage Over Time deal than Burst Damage, you must further agree that the ship was overpowered.
Re: Agincourt sucks, Command Dread rules. I agree.
The staff has dealt UGTO a battleship that could defeat Krills in one-on-one engagements, provided it happened at short range. They named this ship the "Command Dreadnought". In comparison, the K'Luth's Brood is a bit middling, and the ICC Command Carrier is a novelty ship that should not ever be used under any circumstances because its main armaments are fighters. Even if it had a command suite, you'd be requesting a Carrier with no stand-off armament to blunder into enemy range (else, how can your ships engage them?) simply to provide its boon.
The UGTO Command Dread can hold its own in combat at levels that the EAD can sometimes be jealous of. It is the only Command Dreadnought that can both provide its boon to nearby allies (once it has been implemented) and contribute substantial battle power to a fight. The other factions need to trade in battle efficiency for the eventual boons, where ICC makes the heaviest trade: from a Missile Ship (assuming ranged combat) to the vastly inferior Carrier.
Fighters are not a viable choice in combat. Their long reload time and focus on DPS makes them ideal for long fights, but sadly, the only faction built for extended combat is ICC, and they have ammo so even they won't stay in fights for too long. UGTO and K'Luth both focus on burst damage, with the latter focusing on it even moreso. Their cloak also renders fighters useless.
Let me repeat that. It's important that this registers: fighters, which specialise in damage over time, are useless against K'Luth who can simply cloak to completely nullify any offence a carrier can bear against it.
Anyone flying a Carrier knows this: when an enemy comes close, you run.
So why the Command Carrier, then? It takes one K'Luth uncloaking beside it and the entire command structure collapses. It is useful only against UGTO in an offensive capacity, who are more likely to jump you unless you invest in Interdictors.
Against UGTO, you require the tax of one more ship delegated to support duty simply to make sure your Command Carrier is not a sitting duck. You also require a Supply to keep its fighters filled, because in fleet combat even breaking from 400 gu isn't a guarantee to keep fighters alive.
The K'Luth Brood brings firepower to the table, even if it is not a whole lot.
The UGTO Command Dreadnought requires no interdictor to support it or anything. It can jump straight into combat with the EADs and BDs and wreck the enemy from within.
Between the three factions, the UGTO Command Dreadnought jumps out as being an exceptional combat ship, in addition to its future boon of granting buffs. I believe it requires addressing the same way the Krill has required addressing.
[ This Message was edited by: Gesellschaft on 2011-09-26 08:02 ]
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-26 12:18
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-26 07:59, Gesellschaft wrote:
Re: Stations at Marshal/Chief Marshal.
It'd prolong the issue of Stationspam quite a bit. Not all Chief Marshals still play. Most don't, I reckon. Once you get there you've rather seen it all.
I disagree with taking a ship from people, though. You should always avoid taking a ship people have invested in from them. THis suggestion is completely impractical and unethical.
|
|
You've got to be kidding me.
Many Kluths players have invested in the Krill only to see it nerfed.
To me this is all the same. Take away their stations, and return their enh to garage. They can always find a dread to mount those enh on.
Double standards.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2011-09-26 12:35
I thought K'Luth universally agreed the Krill sucked even in its previous incarnation, and that it was all "skill"?
Regardless, there's a difference between a ship you can field to take the enhancements off it, and a ship you can no longer field until you invest a substantial amount of time in the game.
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-26 12:39
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-26 12:35, Gesellschaft wrote:
I thought K'Luth universally agreed the Krill sucked even in its previous incarnation, and that it was all "skill"?
Regardless, there's a difference between a ship you can field to take the enhancements off it, and a ship you can no longer field until you invest a substantial amount of time in the game.
|
|
Not all Kluths. I can only speak for PB. Most of the actives do agree the Krill was OP.
In fact i would rather see it removed for a core-weap cruiser similar to the Strike Cruiser. Hell, it would give me more excuse to field one rather than a dread.
But for the other Kluth players who happen to like the Krill, they've gotten the shaft, from their POV. The same shaft that you're proposing that station spammers (GA and below) would get if they moved stations up to M and CM.
We know that station spamming is a problem. So why not move them up?
Just like the Krill, sometimes a right choice may not be popular or liked.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2011-09-26 18:52
I suppose I don't care much either way; I'm not losing access to any ships. And you do have a point: whereas the Krill was not removed, it is not the package you ordered from the webstore.
_________________
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-09-26 19:28
Quote:
|
On 2011-09-26 18:52, Gesellschaft wrote:
I suppose I don't care much either way; I'm not losing access to any ships. And you do have a point: whereas the Krill was not removed, it is not the package you ordered from the webstore.
|
|
The Nest was pretty nerfed too, so for me it's two ships I fully enhanced and used to enjoy using. The new Nest is even more useless than the new Krill, IMO. It doesn't just suffer from the battle station nerfs, it lost an SI arc.
The Krill to me was always about the SI, not cannons. When I wanted to fly a cannon dread I'd fly my Ganglia, and still do. I seriously do not see the Krill being useful anymore. I can have 4 SI to complement cannons, or I can have missiles that do a whole lot more damage, but I have to worry about ammo.
The biggest thing is the Krill's requirements are no longer justified.
_________________
|
Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2011-09-27 03:23
again, there is another thread called "the krill".
this thread is called '"New ship for marshal rank"....
i still like the ships idea that fully uses each factions strenght:
icc - long range artillery vessel and/or energy transfer array
ugto - Super Supply and/or targetting systems
kluth - Eccm-scrambler and/or cloak field (cloak field like repair field)
But that would mean any advancements would be way way way in the future. So i guess we just have to sit back and wait.
starting to think we should have an admin locked suggestion box, where admin can open it and post the subject they want the players to discuss. I think we have a more goal oriented, more valuable exchange of thoughts then...
_________________
my signature is awesome
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-09-27 10:19
That would be a "Round Table" discussion, like the other game I play does now. Developer posts a topic, players add their input. I love the idea personally, but are the DS devs planning on adding or changing anything? Nerfs like to the Krill don't count enough to warrant a Round Table, but a new ship might.
This is posted at the beginning of every new Round Table thread in that other game:
Quote:
| What is a "Round Table" thread?
A Round Table thread is slightly different from other official threads on the ***** forums. They are designed to be a way for us to talk over ideas in a very directed way with you, our players.
Each round table discussion will be open for one week. At the end of the week it will be locked, and then a few days later we'll kick off the next discussion. We might re-visit some topics down the road as things evolve.
Each thread has its own topic. The topic will revolve around either a change we are in the process of planning (i.e. it hasn’t been implemented yet) or a subject that is clearly in the community's mind as reflected in feedback gathered during the previous week.
Round Table threads will be moderated slightly more than normal threads, as we don't want to get off topic. Our aim is to have useful conversations with our players as we work to improve the game. |
|
Mind you there are enough players and enough discussion there that after a week a Round Table thread can be almost 30 pages long.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2011-09-27 10:21 ]
_________________
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2011-09-27 20:41
Round table?
You mean Circle-QQ, don't you?
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2011-09-27 22:11
Depends on the topic  There are definite problems the players have been crying about a long time, which is one reason for the creation of the round table threads in the first place.
What I'm saying though is that they're a good idea, so long as people stay respectful and don't go off topic.
_________________
|
Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2011-09-28 03:39
I like the "round table" setup. at least make a clear line between rage/qq, and a well argumented statement/suggestion. Like only on-topic post in the thread, after a Mod/admin asks for feedback, will be looked into by the Mod/Admin.
players can still make new topics, rage and discuss whatever they want, but the "...And now I WANT/EXPECT Admins to make things change according to my posts!" mentality isnt right IMO.
In fact i feel 3 suggestions in a week...as destructive to the game. Just like continious whining about lag. I feel like poeple making to many new "Suggstions" threads, should b warned and eventually muted.
I had many ideas for the game when i played 3 weeks, and deleted those ideas from existence after 3 more weeks of experience. I had many ideas when i played 3 months, then ditched those ideas for being unfitting with the game, with 3 more months of experience. Then i got even more ideas after a year of playing and guess what: they all got implemented. Guess Admins had the same ideas lol. I didnt even had to suggest them. some took couple of years to b added, but they did! AI, saggi layout, scenario + continious metaverse, etc.
Just sit back and wait...we'll see what update comes next.
_________________
my signature is awesome
|
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2011-09-28 05:10
We won't be doing round table.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
