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latest beta - need clarification (new cloak) |
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
|  Posted: 2012-01-30 00:28
Quote:
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Implemented new cloaking system -- Cloaked ships can no longer be detected with ECM/ECCM pinging, instead cloak energy usage is based on the amount of signature being masked by the cloaking device. Additionally, if the cloaking device is engaged and energy level reaches zero the ship will begin taking internal damage to the device, drives, and reactors. |
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once i run out of energy does my ship start to flicker or does it stay hidden and only take damage?
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-01-30 04:01
Quote:
| In 1.672, Doran wrote:
- Re-factored the cloaking changes... the system is much simpler now and everyone should be happy. |
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Quote:
| In Lionheads taking out plantes?, Pantheon wrote:
Can't please everyone. |
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Jack is right in my case.
I tested the new cloak system. When I was in a dread/station, energy draining by cloak is even faster than defense mode. When you activate ECM, the draining speed is slower. Ironically, in Colony case, activating 3 gadgets (2 ECM & 1 cloak) drains less energy than activate 1 gadget (cloak). Generally, the more ECM surrounds you, the less energy you loss because of cloaking. And you can't maintain cloaking so long when you're in dread/station.
There is another important update:
Quote:
| In 1.672, Fattierob wrote:
New ECM/ECCM Variants:
- Longwave ECM/ECCM: Standard ECM/ECCM with increased AOE range at the cost of less signature bonus/penalty
- Focused ECM/ECCM: Single target lock with great range and signature bonus/penalty. Consums a larger amount of energy and has a higher cooldown.
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Seems to me that K'Luth should have Longwave ECM as default.
Look a bit further to the past:
Quote:
| In 1.620, BackSlash wrote:
- Changed ECM/ECCM energy drain, strength, range, and cooldown:
* Energy cost now increases per level, instead of a flat constant.
* Strength has been increased slightly per level.
* Range for both ECM and ECCM have been lowered from 500 to 200 and 1000 to 400, respectively.
* Cooldown is now 6 seconds per ship hull level. |
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Sadly, the range of standard ECM is very short. My experience tells me that increased AOE mentioned by Fattierob is not enough for K'Luth fleet to benefit. I suggest that ECM/ECCM range is not constant as current, its range should increased slightly per hull, since ship size also varies.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-01-30 06:31 ]
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-01-30 07:22
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 04:01, chlorophyll wrote:
Sadly, the range of standard ECM is very short. My experience tells me that increased AOE mentioned by Fattierob is not enough for K'Luth fleet to benefit. I suggest that ECM/ECCM range is not constant as current, its range should increased slightly per hull, since ship size also varies.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-01-30 06:31 ]
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ecm and eccm range already varies per hull level
as of v1.671, ecm range formula is [200 + (25 * hull level)] = 250 for scouts, 350 for dread, 450 for stations
eccm range formula is [400 + (50 * hull level)] = 500 for scouts, 700 for dread, 900 for stations
i do not know formula for longwave/narrowband/focused sensor equipment (ecm and eccm) but i hope it varies per hull level
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-(kha-ti the silent watcher)-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 185
From: the land of silent watchers
| Posted: 2012-01-30 09:06
So i can't be seen by the ecm/eccm pings but my energy goes down at a good rate and i start to take damage as well once it hits zero.....uh I'd rather just be seen by the pings.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2012-01-30 09:45
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 09:06, Aura Assassin Red (Silent Watcher) wrote:
So i can't be seen by the ecm/eccm pings but my energy goes down at a good rate and i start to take damage as well once it hits zero.....uh I'd rather just be seen by the pings.
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The problem with pinging is it promotes bad usage of the ECCM devices.. the new cloak will promote sustained usage instead, you can always move outside their range while cloaked before your energy runs out.
You can remain cloaked and gain energy at low enough speeds.
The real problem we are trying to solve here is to give ICC/UGTO a proper counter to the cloak.. this is better than pinging IMHO.
-F
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2012-01-30 09:46
if you run out of energy, you stay cloaked, but your engines and reactors are going to start taking damage and you'll continue not having energy. also the cloak itself will start taking damage, which will eventually force you out of cloak
cloak energy cost is being factored on how much sig has to be compensated for. stations have a high base sig, so it follows that they're going to have a higher energy cost to cloak than any other ship.
as you noticed, running ecm (which has its own energy cost) or having another source(s) of ecm in the area reduces the cost to stay cloaked (hint).
that said, you guys ought to know by now that values are not set in stone. it might take 2 Weeks™, but if we see a pressing need to adjust cloak costs, we will.
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-(kha-ti the silent watcher)-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 185
From: the land of silent watchers
| Posted: 2012-01-30 10:19
the devs are right i know this makes it more of a chance to counter cloak and more realistic..don't mean i gotta love it 100%. i'm just curious to see how it works now....next chance i get...TO BETA
[ This Message was edited by: Aura Assassin Red (Silent Watcher) on 2012-01-30 10:21 ]
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-(kha-ti the silent watcher)-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 185
From: the land of silent watchers
| Posted: 2012-01-30 11:26
At the very least they should give us like 20% more energy.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-01-30 11:53
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 11:26, Aura Assassin Red (Silent Watcher) wrote:
At the very least they should give us like 20% more energy.
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Why? You don't know what effect this has, and nearly all K'Luth ships are capable of fielding ECM/ECCM, whereas ICC and UGTO do not. The advantage is in your favour still (as it is part of your armor perse). This simply makes things a lot simpler, but not as simple as possible (Einstein quote!).
I prefer this system over the one I worked on, which was better than the one before that. Things take time to refine, and we'll tweak the numbers until everything seems hunkydoory, as as close to that as possible.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2012-01-30 14:15
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 13:56, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Why do our energy depend on enemy devices?
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What would be a reasonable counter to the cloaking device then?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-01-30 15:17
I like the way this new cloak system sounds, I'll have to check beta out. Only trick is going to be balancing energy use.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2012-01-30 15:33
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 14:15, Faustus wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 13:56, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Why do our energy depend on enemy devices?
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What would be a reasonable counter to the cloaking device then?
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Something like first cloak system we ever had. 0.0 is invisible and can be modified by any eccm . If there are 5 eccm running , then kluth should have at least 5 ecm to cloak. If kluth running 6 ecm , then enemy will need to run 7 eccm to break enemy cloak. You are the owner of the code.You do know best about it.
Otherwise, in this new update, you will be limiting , defensive, attacking and sneaking ability of kluth without being shoot by a single ammo. Also i am not talking about a single ship , talking about a single device against whole fleet of kluth.
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Princess Celestia
Marshal
Joined: July 03, 2011
Posts: 165
From: The Crystal Empire.
| Posted: 2012-01-30 15:50
Okay so next update Cloakin is difrent i can go 13-12.0 Gu a second in a Luth Dread and gain 1-3 enrgy a min but im movein fiarly fast.
so really all you want me to do is drop my movement speed more witch is all that i see.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2012-01-30 15:51
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 15:33, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Something like first cloak system we ever had. 0.0 is invisible and can be modified by any eccm . If there are 5 eccm running , then kluth should have at least 5 ecm to cloak. If kluth running 6 ecm , then enemy will need to run 7 eccm to break enemy cloak. You are the owner of the code.You do know best about it.
Otherwise, in this new update, you will be limiting , defensive, attacking and sneaking ability of kluth without being shoot by a single ammo. Also i am not talking about a single ship , talking about a single device against whole fleet of kluth.
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So in other words, you would prefer a cloaked ship to only mask it's own signature and no outside sources.
That's pretty easy to do code wise.. I wonder if others would prefer energy management versus just having more ECM than ECCM in the area.
-F
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-01-30 18:24
on one hand i love this idea.
Kluth have a limited time to be cloked ina battle situation. Makes their V button act more like our V buttons.
On the other hand, i would like to know how a fleet of kluth do against a few ICC at an ECCM fortified planet. (20 sb, 32 plats)
i like everyone else, should just go see for myself
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