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latest beta - need clarification (new cloak) |
NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
|  Posted: 2012-01-30 19:05
my 2 cents:
luth ships should be able to maintain aprox 50% of their maxspeed cloaked without any ecm / eccms around and have a stable energy-level
going faster eats your energy
going slower regenerate energy
im ok with ecm / eccm shifting the maxspeed as long as i can regenerate while im sitting in dead space cloacked (alone)
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2012-01-30 19:34
new cloak system, interesting but makes kluth tactics completley useless. i tried to sneak in on plat 1000gu away in siphon. with ecm on. had to drop speed down to 10 because energy was falling like a rock, was at 600gu and energy reserves were at 50%. i droped speed down to 6. when i finnaly reached the maximum fire range of lasers i was down to 15 energy. by the time i uncloaked i give it one alpha and thats that. out of power.
now if that was a real combat situation, only option left would be to jump. or just wait there and be shot to pieces and jump out at critical hull, so at least enemy has some good out of it and gain some press.
and now imagine there was a dico at the planets and target would be near that planet. going in for only one alpha is stupid suicide.
so even if i come in without cloak and cloak when im getting closer and fired upon, i still have to to full speed tango to loose the blind fire, wich would probably eat most of the energy that could either be used to get out safely or go for few shots and death.
so this new genious cloak system STILL leaves kluth with advantage in...and im not going to comment any further..
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-01-30 19:43
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On 2012-01-30 19:34, Ravendark wrote:
new cloak system, interesting but makes kluth tactics completley useless. i tried to sneak in on plat 1000gu away in siphon. with ecm on. had to drop speed down to 10 because energy was falling like a rock, was at 600gu and energy reserves were at 50%. i droped speed down to 6. when i finnaly reached the maximum fire range of lasers i was down to 15 energy. by the time i uncloaked i give it one alpha and thats that. out of power.
now if that was a real combat situation, only option left would be to jump. or just wait there and be shot to pieces and jump out at critical hull, so at least enemy has some good out of it and gain some press.
and now imagine there was a dico at the planets and target would be near that planet. going in for only one alpha is stupid suicide.
so even if i come in without cloak and cloak when im getting closer and fired upon, i still have to to full speed tango to loose the blind fire, wich would probably eat most of the energy that could either be used to get out safely or go for few shots and death.
so this new genious cloak system STILL leaves kluth with advantage in...and im not going to comment any further..
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The Siphon has a unique problem. It has only one reactor, and relies on ELFs to regenerate it's power in battle. Apparently that single reactor isn't able to keep up with the cloak drain even when sitting still.
Try the other dreads. They're fine when not moving. Once you get moving past ~~50% speed, though, it starts to drain.
The stations are affected because of their large base sig.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2012-01-30 20:15
The Siphon has a unique problem. It has only one reactor, and relies on ELFs to regenerate it's power in battle. Apparently that single reactor isn't able to keep up with the cloak drain even when sitting still.
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turn on the ECM then.
yes, it's that simple
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-01-30 20:48
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 20:15, Doran wrote:
Quote:
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The Siphon has a unique problem. It has only one reactor, and relies on ELFs to regenerate it's power in battle. Apparently that single reactor isn't able to keep up with the cloak drain even when sitting still.
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turn on the ECM then.
yes, it's that simple
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Tried that.
With ECM on, sitting still, away from any planet or ECM/ECCM source, energy still drains.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-01-30 20:49 ]
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Entil-Zha the Starkiller
Chief Marshal
Ravenous Wolfpack Clan
Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 261
From: Arizona - Where DST is a myth
| Posted: 2012-01-30 22:39
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 00:28, NoBoDx wrote:
Quote:
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Implemented new cloaking system -- Cloaked ships can no longer be detected with ECM/ECCM pinging, instead cloak energy usage is based on the amount of signature being masked by the cloaking device. Additionally, if the cloaking device is engaged and energy level reaches zero the ship will begin taking internal damage to the device, drives, and reactors. |
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once i run out of energy does my ship start to flicker or does it stay hidden and only take damage?
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If thats the way cloak will work it sounds more like it was when I first encountered DS...during 1.383 or 1.480..somewhere in there. All cloak did was make it far more difficult to be found.
But if 0 energy does that...that certainly makes trying to leave a combat area with 0 power while taking fire a more ticklish scenario...
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-01-30 23:24
Quote:
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On 2012-01-30 22:55, Entil-Zha the Starkiller wrote:
If thats the way cloak will ultimately work it sounds more like it was when I first encountered DS...during 1.383 or 1.480..somewhere in there. All cloak did was make it far more difficult to be found.
But if 0 energy does that...that certainly makes trying to leave a combat area with 0 power while taking fire a more ticklish undertaking...
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The Siphon does have a problem, and F has posted that he'll look into it.
As for 0 energy. Just make sure there's no dico around if you intend to stick it to the enemy till your run outta juice. Otherwise, a quick e-jump at 0 energy will do the trick.
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2012-01-30 23:47 ]
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-(kha-ti the silent watcher)-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 12, 2011
Posts: 185
From: the land of silent watchers
| Posted: 2012-01-31 06:33
Well i'm sure they will tweak things to make sure it'll be good for all so untill then theres no need to worry its still in beta.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2012-01-31 10:38
Your right, now i remember the old version too:
Kluth had to slow down to keep cloak up, this way blindfiring was more efficent and Kluth had to be more carefull if and when they engage.
I like that, maybe after all it is a good trade for "pinging", too bad we cant have hit all,
Ping.. i loved you R.I.P
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-01-31 13:59
It doesn't feel natural when a dread loses energy because of cloaking while standing by. The new cloak system definitely makes it much harder for Luth players and forces them to work in group. As always, everything development changes the player habit and requires them more skills may drive to a shockwave of QQ. Eventually, all players may adjust to keep up with the new condition. But if we easily accept the changes like that, we don't sit here and waste time discussing.
I suggest another way to count for energy loss for cloaking.
Typically, when a ship is standing by, its signature is steady and same for its class. Let's call that signature is the landmark A. When the cloaking ship moves, it creates extra B signature. Ship signature = A + B. The energy loss will depends on B, not A.
IMHO, I think of a realistic method cloaking. When a luth activates cloak, its signature stays constantly zero (0). But it doesn't disappear from the enemy mornitor. Instead, it is transperant. The enemy can't not target it by pressing E - as there is no red diamond of the ship - but they can see the ship with their very eyes. Let's call cloak is the ultimate anti-sensor gadget. Ship detects object's location by sensor device, so obviously you can see it even although you can't detect. The amount of energy loss by cloaking is calculated by percentage of its speed. Running at 100% speed when cloaking costs 200% the power it loss when running without cloaking. I know my idea is actually the same as reality.
Totally simple and nothing different than reality! roflmao
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-01-31 15:49
testing currently new cloak in beta -> stock-brood (with 2 ECMs & 2 Generators)
situation: in deep-space, no other object within 10k gu
Base-Sig 12.5
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECMs both off -> losing slowly energy aprox -0.3 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECM 1 on -> regenerating nrg aprox +0.2 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECM both on -> regenerating nrg aprox +1 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 4.5gu, ECM both on -> losing slowly energy aprox -0.1 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 4.1gu, ECM both on -> energy stable
Cloak, speed: 2gu, ECM 1 on-> energy stable
installed a Stealth-module (it should improve cloak somehow)
Base-Sig: 10.6
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECMs both off -> losing slowly energy aprox -0.2 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECM 1 on -> regenerating nrg aprox +0.2 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 0gu, ECM both on -> regenerating nrg aprox +1 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 4.1gu, ECM both on -> energy stable
Cloak, speed: 2.1gu, ECM 1 on-> energy stable
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-01-31 16:36
Fang (1 ECM, 1 Generator - Scout)
Base Sig: 1.3 - Max Speed 35 gu
Cloak, speed: 35 gu, ECM off -> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: <35 gu, ECM off -> Energy regenerating
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proboscis (2 ECM, 1 Generator - Frig)
Base Sig: 2.3 - Max Speed 30 gu
Cloak, speed: 23 gu, ECM off -> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 30 gu, ECM off -> -0.5 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 24 gu, ECM 1 on-> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 30 gu, ECM 1 on-> -0.5 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 24.8 gu, ECM both on-> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 30 gu, ECM both on-> -0.4 nrg/s
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Claw (0 ECM, 1 Generator - dessie)
Base Sig: 3.3 - Max Speed 25 gu
Cloak, speed: 16.2 gu -> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 25 gu -> -1 nrg/s
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Scale (2 ECM, 2 Generator - Cruiser)
Base Sig: 5.5 - Max Speed 20 gu
Cloak, speed: 11.5 gu, ECM off -> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 20 gu, ECM off -> -1 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 11.5gu, ECM 1 on-> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 20 gu, ECM 1 on-> -1 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 14.4 gu, ECM both on-> Energy Stable
Cloak, speed: 30 gu, ECM both on-> -0.8 nrg/s
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colony (2 ECM, 3 Generator - Station)
Base Sig: 20.8 - Max Speed 3.5 gu
Cloak, speed: 0 gu, ECM off -> -5 nrg/s
Cloak, speed: 0 gu, ECM both on-> -2.5 nrg/s
[ This Message was edited by: NoBoDx on 2012-01-31 20:34 ]
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The only good 'ooman is a dead 'ooman. An' da only fing better than a dead 'ooman'z a dyin' 'ooman who tell you where ter find 'is mates.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2012-01-31 18:49
looking at the info nobodox provided, it seem such system would discourage the use of dreads.
kluth will claw you all to the bonez!!
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-02-01 00:47
Quote:
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On 2012-01-31 22:56, NoBoDx wrote:
the ultimate worker was a quite strong combat-ship ( i killed a destroyer + drove his cruiser-buddy off while maintaining >70%hull )
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How many ECMs does the Ulti worker have ATM?
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Boerenkool
Marshal
Joined: December 18, 2007
Posts: 218
| Posted: 2012-02-01 04:04
i think this problem of slow speeds and high energy drain can be easily solved with and ecm scout. If u look closely to the post in this thread, ull see several hint saying use ecm. All the responses where "i did turn ecm on". this is still a game where team effort gets rewarded. someone needs to grab that scout...
Also on a sidenote: this update helps reduce dreadspace. Recently all high ranking kluth have been fling station or dread. An update like this makes smaller ships more strategic.
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