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here's your game balance |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
|  Posted: 2012-03-23 23:31
if nobody on your team can fly anything over a cruiser, and you're up against 3 stations and 2 dreads, you might as well just log off, even if the number of players on each side is even.
the fight is basically pointless once the dread pilots on your side get bored and quit.
80% of the players are in maximum tier ships, and 20% are in ships that are essentially nothing more than a pain in the ass for the higher ups.
I'm sure some of you think you're awesome in cruisers, but i'd like to see you and 5 noobs fend off a fleet of dreadnoughts and stations.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-03-23 23:37
good thing we can balance player numbers
wait....
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-03-23 23:58
well, this game is seemingly balanced for large numbers of players that are mostly newbies, however, seeing more than 10 people on each team would be an amazing event the way things are now.
You're not going to get situations where there's 5 stealth corvettes torping a dread.
Players are in such low number that every member is critical.
When you have players that are in dinky little hull dingers, they're essentially just dead weight, cannon fodder, or something to take out your anger on.
I've suggested dampening the very steep performance curve of ships so that they're more evenly matched.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-03-23 23:58 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-03-24 01:59
What if the AI fill in to balance the teams?
For example, if one team has a lot of player dreads, a bunch of the AI on the other teams will switch into dreads themselves, and go into something smaller once some actual players get into them.
Or even one team getting stats against a team of noobs, and a few AI switch into stations.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-03-24 02:26
you know how much AI are worth....... 
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-03-24 05:39
Quote:
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On 2012-03-24 02:26, Brutality *XO2* wrote:
you know how much AI are worth.......
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Yeah, they are pretty worthless, but this would at least (hopefully) dampen things a bit.
a fleet of destroyers and a few cruisers just can't cope with a coordinated team of dreads and stations. All they can do is peck away at them at a safe range.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-03-24 05:40 ]
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Fatal Afro Man *NCO*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: September 09, 2006
Posts: 201
| Posted: 2012-03-24 05:43
Team work will allow a group of ICC cruiser/desie to win against any array of UGTO Dread/stations.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-03-24 07:04
me and tailen have won more than our fair share of fights agains ugto dreads and stats with cruisers.
Hell ive heald the line against kluth invasions on my own in a cd/af.
Me and another ftl stopped a kluth invasion of three dreads, mandi, siph, brood, with two command carriers.
Its not the size of your tool that counts. Its hdow you use it.
Practice bro practice.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-03-24 07:50
Quote:
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On 2012-03-23 23:41, Fluttershy wrote:
it's 8 vs 8
one side has dreads and stats
the other side is stuck in dessies and cruisers.
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Tip: Rank up
There's not much else u can do, honestly. Doesn't make sense that a frigate can go head to head with a dread. Over time, perhaps, if the dread pilot is a complete moron, the frig can seriously damage or kill the dread. But that's gotta be a very rare occurence.
Evening out the differences in strength between big n small ships can only go so far before it becomes ridiculous.
What can prob be done is to tweak weapons damage, like giving missiles more damage and less sig. Then outfitting the smaller ships with more of those. Just an example. But it doesn't add up
if your rubber dinghy can take out a battleship.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-03-24 14:49
Progamertip: Smaller ships aren't meant to win 1 v 1 against larger ships. You can't just run in and mash spacebar against a larger ship and think you're going to win.
[ This Message was edited by: Fattierob on 2012-03-24 14:53 ]
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2012-03-24 14:51
Anyone who thinks cruisers and destroyers are bad does not understand weapon ranges.
I'm sorry, that's just how it is. I can't be bothered to explain this crap any more. If you think you understand weapon range- damage, speed, accuracy, the works- and you still believe these ships are powerless, then you don't understand weapon range.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2012-03-24 16:57
Actually, instead of whining, whinging and generally bitching,
Why dont you think and be a bit more imaginative?
Hell, on the ICC side of the fence, Cruisers own dreds and stations.
Your nimble, fast and hard to hit. You can evade heavy missiles and cannons and your JD recharges infinitely faster for those timely get-aways.
TBH, i used to want to be a DS dev. But now i realise the amount of crap that gets hurled at them and i seriously have pity on the devs/mods of this game.
[ This Message was edited by: iwancoppa on 2012-03-24 16:59 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-03-24 17:58
Small combat ships are more of an attrition damage thing, if left unchecked for long enough, even a dread will get whittled down and have to withdraw.
The small ships are good at evading damage, so can stay in a fight longer.
However, there are situations where sheer firepower and large ships are needed if you hope to accomplish anything.
You guys might look at the old game Stellar Frontier and see how they did the ship class differences from Scout to Starbase.
Destroyers there are the prime balance of speed and firepower, while cruisers and up are good at putting out damage, but it's hard for them to avoid damage in close combat.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-03-24 23:12
Quote:
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On 2012-03-24 17:58, Fluttershy wrote:
Small combat ships are more of an attrition damage thing, if left unchecked for long enough, even a dread will get whittled down and have to withdraw.
The small ships are good at evading damage, so can stay in a fight longer.
However, there are situations where sheer firepower and large ships are needed if you hope to accomplish anything.
You guys might look at the old game Stellar Frontier and see how they did the ship class differences from Scout to Starbase.
Destroyers there are the prime balance of speed and firepower, while cruisers and up are good at putting out damage, but it's hard for them to avoid damage in close combat.
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hence when outnumbered dreads are a bad idea in general. They will just get ganked and destroyed by the superior number of enemy dreads. Cruisers and dessies are good for staying out of beam range frustrating an enemy and forcing him to make a mistake that you can capitalize on. 
[ This Message was edited by: Brutality *XO2* on 2012-03-24 23:30 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-03-25 05:48
It just feels like everything is too far apart on the scale.
What small ships lack in armor and hull, they supposedly make up for in speed, maneuverability, and jump drive recharge.
But there's a problem.
Point jumps, Dictors, and Beams all counteract those benefits.
Beams are incredibly OP, they nuke small ships in half an alpha.
Even a cruiser can't sustain an alpha from a siphon and get out without hull damage, even if they spread it out over 2 arcs of armor. ONE ALPHA!
2nd alpha will undoubtedly kill them.
I'm getting tired of having our supports blown up left and right by cowardly little hit and run attacks. Seriously, make supply ships able to tank some hits, increase their size, and slap some armor on those things, they're worth 100 prestige if you die in one, so having them lead a binary existence like they are is complete BS.
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