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Mines |
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
|  Posted: 2012-04-29 06:09
Problem with all this AoE stuff is the dumbing down of the game.
Mines were fine before. Not everybody knew how to use them well (besides gate mining). And those who knew were rewarded.
Already planet capping has been made AoE. Planet defs have been made AoE. Now you want mines. What's next? Weapons fire made AoE too? Roll based?
I say bring back the 1.5x mines.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-29 06:17
Well, if you do bring them back to their former glory, there really should be something in place to prevent them from being stuck right on the exit point of gates.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-04-29 06:22
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On 2012-04-29 06:17, Fluttershy wrote:
Well, if you do bring them back to their former glory, there really should be something in place to prevent them from being stuck right on the exit point of gates.
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That was the point of area denial. U mined the gates to make the enemy think twice abt going through one without checking.
Besides you could always let AI go thru first.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-29 08:40
Being able to put mines in any location where someone suddenly appears by game mechanic (gates, shipyard planets) makes it too prone to exploitation, and will cause nothing but QQ.
Let's say you look at the other end of the gate.
Looks clear, nothing around, don't see any mines...
Don't have enough fuel to long-jump... I'll take it.
OOPS! You're dead. There goes 400 prestige!
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-04-29 09:40
Flutter i get what ur suggest but that would seem to OP because if theres nothing there to PD then u might not see it at all and u'd are far more lilkely to hit then with just mines. mines are supposed to be PD'able but at the moment anyone and anything can PD them make them there still cause just making a field of Damage unless it'll have some kinda thing tellling u its there with ECCM or something mines would be much better
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-04-29 12:32
Quote:
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On 2012-04-29 08:40, Fluttershy wrote:
Being able to put mines in any location where someone suddenly appears by game mechanic (gates, shipyard planets) makes it too prone to exploitation, and will cause nothing but QQ.
Let's say you look at the other end of the gate.
Looks clear, nothing around, don't see any mines...
Don't have enough fuel to long-jump... I'll take it.
OOPS! You're dead. There goes 400 prestige!
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Mines are PD-able. That means that you can see them if you have sufficient ECCM or a scanner. If you went through a gate and got blown up because you took a chance, or didn't send a scout through, that's your problem.
And stop whining about pres loss. You do damage and kill you get pres. You die, you lose pres. That's life. If you can't accept that, you know where that leads to.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-04-29 12:33 ]
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2012-04-29 15:21
Wormholes kinda defeats the purpose of gate mining anyway, and since every assault force worth its resources has station support, if you know the mines are there they're easy to bypass.
The real purpose of mines needs to additional static planet defense, which is impossible to do effectively in the current patch.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-04-29 17:11
wormholes might bypass gate-mining, but which sane player replace the jumpdrive with a wormhole today ?
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-04-29 18:42
Enterprise it dosent matter how good u ARE they just get PD'd does no one understand u can place them in perfect spots but they just get PD'd okay ur not taking off the drop limit fine (maybe extend the limit from 3 fields to 5) but again FIX THE SIG thats the only real problem
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-04-29 18:47
Quote:
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On 2012-04-29 08:40, Fluttershy wrote:
Being able to put mines in any location where someone suddenly appears by game mechanic (gates, shipyard planets) makes it too prone to exploitation, and will cause nothing but QQ.
Let's say you look at the other end of the gate.
Looks clear, nothing around, don't see any mines...
Don't have enough fuel to long-jump... I'll take it.
OOPS! You're dead. There goes 400 prestige!
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Flutter mines do not one shot u EVER cause now if u come out of the gate and turn into every one of the mines then u suck at flying but u are just bound to hit 1 or 2 sets of mines (6 or so total) not that deadly and saying its an exploitation yes it is MINES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE for a century mines are used to blockade people in a system( Area) thats the design there not to drop in middle space where no one is at.
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Alien Mastermind
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 242
From: Toronto
| Posted: 2012-04-30 02:44
[quote]
On 2012-04-29 02:17, Enterprise wrote:
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On 2012-04-29 01:51, Fatal Devil Dog wrote:
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On 2012-04-28 15:02, Enterprise wrote:
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Mines are limited for a reason.
Excessive mine spammage = eventual one hit kills on any ship.
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enterprise i can one shot ships with missiles. to my knowledge mines and tier2 missiles are similiar in damage so when i can one shot small ships its same thing but mines are hard to do it with. its not like the whole team will run mine ships if we do this i mean they still suck
People have to hit the mines and u dont have that many mines to begin with enough to mine one gate and to cover the whole gate a ship can break the mine field without much damage
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Trust me when I say, there are names that the oldest Darkspace players with us still remember. They are the names of players very, very good at killing other players with mines when they were unlimited and powerful.
At least with missiles you have a chance. Trust me when I say, that the entire reason mines are limited now can be attributed to just how good you could be with them.
Missiles will not one hit kill any ship... I'm talking about minefields that could destroy a station and everything that came through with it.
Big difference.
-Ent
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just randomly popping in after years and years of not playing to say that i miss my cl2k/AM mine claw.
see you all in another 5 years. that is all.
[ This Message was edited by: Alien Mastermind on 2012-04-30 12:24 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-04-30 05:15
Increasing the damage of mines will simply increase the disparity between mines being utterly useless in most situations, and incredibly overpowered in like... one.
Same thing with missiles.
They either suck, or completely rip everything to pieces.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-04-30 13:04
Would it be possible to up the damage, lower signature, give them a long arming time (around 30 seconds or so), and do no damage if destroyed by PD before they arm? That way they can be effective when used defensively or as a trap, but can't be used offensively by dropping a bunch infront of or ontop of someone.
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On 2012-04-29 02:35, Fluttershy wrote:
It will behave as an attrition weapon like planet defenses, not an easy mode lay-and-pray device.
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"Lay and pray" is exactly what mines are supposed to be. The only difference between DS mines and real world mines are if you hit ONE underwater mine with a naval ship you're heading back to drydock for extensive repairs at best, currently in DS you can run over a half dozen mines in anything larger than a Frigate and easily survive.
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-04-30 16:28
Im not suggesting to buff the damage dont bring it up.
im saying fix the sig or the drop limit
the sig is my main point
people say mines dont hurt well as Geja can confirm her Assault Dessie was almost destroyed at 16 hull with just one drop of mines.
they are not weak i say again the very easy pd is the problem
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-05-01 00:19
Quote:
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On 2012-04-30 16:28, Fatal Devil Dog wrote:
Im not suggesting to buff the damage dont bring it up.
im saying fix the sig or the drop limit
the sig is my main point
people say mines dont hurt well as Geja can confirm her Assault Dessie was almost destroyed at 16 hull with just one drop of mines.
they are not weak i say again the very easy pd is the problem
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I could agree with this.
Reduce the mine sig (negative sig) and increase the drop limit. Maybe 5 or more salvoes.
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