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Gunships |
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
|  Posted: 2012-06-04 08:59
That is an unjustifiable comparison in my opinion. Let's say that a gunboat had a qst. The weapon level itself would be far less than that from an EAD. You are comparing the damage output of a dread to a ship class that is three classes lower. The correct comparision, simply, is how do the dessies of the three factions compare.
And I still see more wrong with your perception of tactics than I do anything you are pointing out.
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Flux Capacitor
Marshal
Joined: July 30, 2010
Posts: 305
From: the place
| Posted: 2012-06-04 10:53
shell (after the scarab phase) is my favourite ship on luth, gunboat is my favourite on UGTO, and the heavy cruiser for icc.
have u tried flying in an assault class vs a gunship? u have to fly full speed to get close enough, after u alpha ur energy running out fast, also assault ships tend to have more plextors and less engine boosters. a small gunship is hard to catch. it stays at range, once someone point jumps you, there is the jump button. rlly most of the time you need 2 players to kill a gunship if its flown well.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-06-04 11:56
dont guns have bigger fireing arcs than most of the assaults weapons ?
afaik gunships. an broadside enemys, fireing most if their weapons, while assault-ships have to take their targets head on?
+ broadside give you the opportunity to tank with 2 sides, while assaukt-ships take all hits in their front armor
and if i remember correctly, gunships also have a acceptable rear-arment so you can even fire at enemys chasing you, while youre out of their effective range
hulled 2 luth-cruiser with a frig in scenario some time ago
maintaining range: unless youre fighting luth, your jd-recharge is as long as theirs so once someone point-jump you, and you shortjump, youre safe from him until youre jd is recharged
oh, and one more thing: afaik leaving the fireing arc result in no more damage
so if you can take a frontal hit, just fly straight through them
a) others shooting you will hit their player
b) the assault-ship have to turn to shoot you
c) depending on shipsize you havesome seconds where his weak armored arcs face you, while you can fire a broadside or two at him
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-04 12:08
Quote:
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On 2012-06-04 06:10, Azreal wrote:
By the way, I bet every player in the top 25 are adept at using virtually every ship in their armada. Wolf always made a point of training so that were adept at all ships in ALL 3 FACTIONS. They all have a use and a counter. |
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Not just the top 25. Though I have to admit I haven't done a whole lot with most luth ships since the layout changes.
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-06-04 12:38
gunboats are good vs kluth too in the right hands.
Aside from the kluths inability to catch the gunboat, your flying at full speed aand can dodge good enuff to bypass most of their projectile damage.
A gunboat can track a cloaked kluth better than an assault ship.
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µOmniVore
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 13, 2006
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2012-06-04 14:17
also the sustained fire of a gunship can also help negate a ships natural repair ability.
Gunships are the backbone of a fleet not the tip of a sword they are best used in groups, as to help each other defense against fighters and such.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-06-04 19:20
Well, in a Assault dread vs Cannon dread scenario, the 4 core weapons alone will nearly match the damage output of the approximately 8 cannons being fired.
This wouldn't be a problem if the core weapons weren't just as fast as cannons, but each projectile is doing the damage of 10 cannon rounds, and to top it off, the assault ships typically have forward reinforcement.
The only thing is that those 4 core weapons are forward facing, and only 2 can be fired to the sides.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-06-04 19:22 ]
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2012-06-04 22:40
Gunships do vary in roles respective to their faction and hull class but they are arguably all effective at one time or another. All have incredible battle endurance and energy efficiency. This helps Kluth maintain sustained dps compared to their beam ships and also compounds ICC's shield combat endurance.
UGTO primarily uses battle dreads to support assault dreads, especially when on the approach. They can provide suppresive fire which forces enemies to attempt to avoid some of the incoming fire which throws them off from avoiding the assault ships. They also weaken enemy ships so that when the assault ships do get in range they have a much easier time. When facing Kluth they instead perform a fleet coverage role. Kluth's favorite tactic of decloaking on the rear is still effective, but since gunboat class ships now have near perfect arcs a few gunboats can help give a fleet better flank and rear coverage as opposed to pure assault ships. Some gunboats may equip emp cannons but that is not usually seen. Smaller gunboat destroyers and cruisers can help drive off or counter the ICC favored tactic of running cruisers to harass UGTO dreads. Against Kluth however running gunboat destroyer might not be the brightest idea.
Kluth use their "gunboat" classes (mandible, krill, and ganglia all have some aspects of the "gunboat" design) to help put on some sustained dps that their beamships lack. The burst damage is supplied by said beam ships which picks off a few targets. The gunboats takeover while the beam ships cloak or recharge to provide continued pressure. Ganglia also provide missile support while mandibles can help with the closer range dps.
ICC combat endurance (bar ammo) is exemplified in the gunboat class. ICC provide what a gunship needs: maneuverability, combat endurance in the form of shields, and longer range damage in the form of no fall-off longer range cannons. This is shown especially in ICC border/heavy cruisers where the pilot will frequently go to resupply for ammo rather than to repair critical damage. In ICC I would say the gunboat class is the mainstay of the fleet simply because the faction and design philosophy merge well with each other. The gunboat can bombard from near max range while retaining most of its dps provided that the enemy is too large to dodge. At this long range there isn't much return fire. Supporting assault ships will also cover for these gunboats, making you think twice about point jumping the ICC fleet.
On the subject of 4 QST vs 8 HPcannons both have merit in their damage however as an EAD utilizing QSTS you must face the enemy, causing you to have a much smaller damage avoidance. BDs can do a slanted approach, causing them to be able to dodge much more fire at longer ranges. As stated before the reason why the 4 QSTs are devastating is simply because the EAD has super dread status, causing its weapons to do more damage.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-06-04 23:24
btw, core weapons don't level, the QSTs on a dread are exactly the same as those on a station.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-06-04 23:53
Quote:
| On 2012-06-04 23:24, Fluttershy wrote:
Core weapons don't level, the QSTs on a dread are exactly the same as those on a station. |
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This is not true. All weapon in DS depends on hull level. Ion Cannon damage on Strike Cruiser is approximately 7/10 compared to Station.
[ This Message was edited by: chlorophyll on 2012-06-04 23:54 ]
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2012-06-05 00:11
Gunship role: medium range fire support, covering fire. gunships can remain on the line for the duration of an engagement, this is not true of most assault ships. during the switches between active assault ships and the reserve, or during resting periods for the assault ships, the gunships are the ones maintaining the engagement.
You will see gunship tactics used more commonly by UGTO because they simply have access to the best ones.
ICC use missile dreads in a similar capacity when fighting UGTO, but in engagement scenarios where long range bombardment is not an option you will see CDs escorting ADs.
due to the nature of the kluth gunships don't make a great deal of sense, but they can do similar things in a different manner using their lower-end vessels. its quite rare you will see this though, kluth (during versions where they are properly balanced) do not favour prolonged engagements. however I have seen assault wings do damage and then get followed up by a few cruisers doing quick strafing runs while the assault ships repaired and prepared for a second run.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2012-06-05 03:47
If missiles are a problem in a gunship then there is a fair chance you are not flying it properly.
Some gunships downright suck, Example: Combat Dred. Most of them are excellent when handled well, ICC have some nasty cruisers and UGTO battle dreds are the way to go.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-06-05 05:19
Quote:
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On 2012-06-04 23:53, chlorophyll wrote:
This is not true. All weapon in DS depends on hull level. Ion Cannon damage on Strike Cruiser is approximately 7/10 compared to Station.
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Core Weapons (QST/IC/SI) do not scale with gadget level (which is directly tied to the hull of the ship). An Ion Cannon on a cruiser does the same damage, the same everything, as it does on a station.
This may or may not change in the future
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2012-06-05 05:33
this gunship thread arroused me. so i went and pulled out a krill...im sorry gangila, i dont love you anymore.... its really awsome gunship. big, it hurts...cant really match up on it own. or at least i havent found a way yet...but no matter what ppl say that krill sucks now....im starting to like it. i just hope that gangila scenario wont happen with krill.... when i fell in love with gangi, everyone else did and now its gonna get nerfed...  anyway.... what is the kluth dessy gunship?
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-06-05 06:24
Quote:
| On 2012-06-05 05:19, Fattierob wrote:
Quote:
| On 2012-06-04 23:53, chlorophyll wrote:
All weapon in DS depends on hull level. Ion Cannon damage on Strike Cruiser is approximately 7/10 compared to Station. |
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Core Weapons (QST/IC/SI) do not scale with gadget level (which is directly tied to the hull of the ship). An Ion Cannon on a cruiser does the same damage, the same everything, as it does on a station. |
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Fattierob, I read this directly from Sheet 2 of your Darkspace technical sheets. You wrote: IC damage = 2227 + (1372) + {748 + (546)} then you give example Cruiser IC damage = 21652, Station IC damage = 38102.
Something has changed after February 18th?
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