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Radical New Idea To Better DarkSpace |
Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
|  Posted: 2012-06-12 17:41
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On 2012-06-12 16:56, Persistance wrote:
Another concern of mine was that the reactives aren't going to be useful on anything but a border cruiser(nothing else can do damage and carry that big of a sensor load-out).
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reactives also have the least energy drain which should be their best selling point.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-12 18:36
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On 2012-06-12 16:23, Fattierob wrote:
can you explain why you feel they're being more "like armor"?
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Not like armor, like UGTO style armor. ICC shields are now all +resistance to this and -resistance to that, aside from Active which is the standard armor equivalent with no resistance or weakness.
It'd be better to just leave it like it is with Active having higher HP, lower regen, higher energy use and Reactive with lower HP, better resists, faster recharge, lower energy use, and both weak to EMP/ELF. Adding new shield types to go along with them wouldn't be bad but basically gutting the current shield system and replacing it with shields that are modeled after UGTO armor just doesn't look right. I DO really like the idea of a low sig shield, but why add that to a shield that has resistance/weakness?
I can definitely appreciate the work that's being put into .674, it's just the shield changes that don't sit right.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-06-12 19:16
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On 2012-06-12 18:36, Talien wrote:
It'd be better to just leave it like it is with Active having higher HP, lower regen, higher energy use and Reactive with lower HP, better resists, faster recharge, lower energy use, and both weak to EMP/ELF.
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"Better resists" and "lower hp" do not go together. Your effective HP is either higher or lower then active shields if you have flat resists across the board. You say you don't want +resists and -resists like armor, but that's the only way to balance it
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Adding new shield types to go along with them wouldn't be bad but basically gutting the current shield system and replacing it with shields that are modeled after UGTO armor just doesn't look right. I DO really like the idea of a low sig shield, but why add that to a shield that has resistance/weakness?
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Because a shield with just lower signature but nothing else besides something nerfed slightly to compensate for it wouldn't be used. I don't want to add in eleven different flavors of shields because it'd be a balancing nightmare. I think the current system works, and the three ICC shields aren't directly the same as the three UGTO armors, but they are obviously similiar so it's easier to understand, as a player, what they do
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-12 20:09
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On 2012-06-12 19:16, Fattierob wrote:
"Better resists" and "lower hp" do not go together. Your effective HP is either higher or lower then active shields if you have flat resists across the board. You say you don't want +resists and -resists like armor, but that's the only way to balance it
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With faster regen coupled with being able to avoid a lot of incoming fire it does work even if the total HP with resistances factored in is lower than what you'd get out of Actives, it's why so many people currently use Reactive over Active especially on Scouts/Frigates/Destroyers. It's not always about effective HP totals, sometimes it's more about how it performs in a given situation over something else that's better in almost every way on paper.
It seemed just fine having shields with weakness to EMP, which destroys them in short order, and ELF actually having an effect on shields while draining energy.
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Because a shield with just lower signature but nothing else besides something nerfed slightly to compensate for it wouldn't be used. I don't want to add in eleven different flavors of shields because it'd be a balancing nightmare. I think the current system works, and the three ICC shields aren't directly the same as the three UGTO armors, but they are obviously similiar so it's easier to understand, as a player, what they do |
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Again, it's not always about total HP with resistances factored in. A shield that generates negative sig but has lower HP and no resistances would help you avoid more damage than a high HP shield if used properly in combination with ECM, the enemy would have to actively work to target you even if they know the general area you're in. It's why Border Cruisers with all Reactives were so effective at long range stealth attacks before ECM was nerfed.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-06-12 21:19
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On 2012-06-12 20:09, Talien wrote:
With faster regen coupled with being able to avoid a lot of incoming fire it does work even if the total HP with resistances factored in is lower than what you'd get out of Actives, it's why so many people currently use Reactive over Active especially on Scouts/Frigates/Destroyers. It's not always about effective HP totals, sometimes it's more about how it performs in a given situation over something else that's better in almost every way on paper.
It seemed just fine having shields with weakness to EMP, which destroys them in short order, and ELF actually having an effect on shields while draining energy.
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You're not understanding how bad previous reactives were. The extra regen they had _did not_ make up for the lack of health they had. They are much better now overall without having insanely good regen. They still are able to focus in a hit and fade roll quite effectively, and they will be useful for smaller ships with beam weapons once weapons get rebalanced. The same goes for EMP (only reactives had a weakness against EMP) when I get around to them
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Again, it's not always about total HP with resistances factored in. A shield that generates negative sig but has lower HP and no resistances would help you avoid more damage than a high HP shield if used properly in combination with ECM, the enemy would have to actively work to target you even if they know the general area you're in. It's why Border Cruisers with all Reactives were so effective at long range stealth attacks before ECM was nerfed.
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Right, and? That's why the reactives give you less signature
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-12 23:40
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On 2012-06-12 21:19, Fattierob wrote:
You're not understanding how bad previous reactives were. The extra regen they had _did not_ make up for the lack of health they had. They are much better now overall without having insanely good regen. They still are able to focus in a hit and fade roll quite effectively, and they will be useful for smaller ships with beam weapons once weapons get rebalanced. The same goes for EMP (only reactives had a weakness against EMP) when I get around to them
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No, I do understand what you're saying. And yes I agree that on paper it makes you wonder why anyone would use them, but from experience I can tell you they are the shield of choice for a lot of people on anything smaller than a Cruiser, and sometimes even on Cruisers. When you're often only being hit by a few stray shots out of dozens fired at you at a time it works perfectly, and when you have that Siphon decloaking in your face or that EAD that got a lucky point jump directly ontop of you then you'd most likely be jumping out anyway regardless of the shield type you're using.
This is basically reinventing shields and making it more complex. I thought not being able to have augmented repair mid combat via drones/SS repair field was the whole reason why shields had slight to moderate resistances to most types of damage but nothing really good against any one type? Also consider that UGTO have 2 layers of armor and can put one type on the outside and the other on the inside to have decent defense against anything, but ICC can't do this with shields aside from one ship. The Border Cruiser.
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On 2012-06-12 21:19, Fattierob wrote:
Right, and? That's why the reactives give you less signature
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The new Reactives are shields with some resistance/weakness that happen to have lower sig than others, but still have a positive sig unless turned off. I'm talking about a shield that actually reduces sig while active in exchange for lower HP, but not by so much that they're enough to hide a ship without also having ECM active. The current/former Reactives have the same signature as Actives (at least as far as I can remember) but use less energy while not recharging, which makes them ideal for use with heavy ECM. What I'm suggesting is keep Active/Reactive mostly the way they are now and add a Stealth Shield instead of Skirmish.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2012-06-12 23:40
Whoever says graphic isnt the most important thing in a video game, please go and suicide. First thing a gamer looks is the type of the game . When he finds the game he judge the graphics and decide if it is worth to play.
Fo example p0rn. A pervert (like kenny) after clicking on the link would watch the video for a few seconds to judge if it is watchable. If it isnt , he will just go back to find more videos. He wont be curious about what was video about or the action it could have .
right kenny?
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-06-13 01:11
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On 2012-06-12 23:40, Pakhos[+R] wrote:
Whoever says graphic isnt the most important thing in a video game, please go and suicide. First thing a gamer looks is the type of the game . When he finds the game he judge the graphics and decide if it is worth to play.
Fo example p0rn. A pervert (like kenny) after clicking on the link would watch the video for a few seconds to judge if it is watchable. If it isnt , he will just go back to find more videos. He wont be curious about what was video about or the action it could have .
right kenny?
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LOL.
Yep 
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Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2012-07-01 14:22
Alright, I've been thinking over "Radical" and "Unconventional" ideas to advertise DarkSpace without sounding like a spambot in other forums.
I have thought of a couple of ideas.
First of all, the idea of youtube. No, not by posting independant videos, those obviously don't work as well. I know guyton's videos have like 700 views, but yet, they're just "viewers". they're just looking for something to watch, to kill time, they're not interested in the game itself, but the video. They view it as a way to kill time, not a way to get started with a game.
Anyway, that's the average youtuber's logic. I should know, I spend most of my time there.. anyway, my idea is to somehow mention DarkSpace on famous channels. Some youtubers have youtube series which are suppose to interact with the community. Respond to fan mail, and in some cases with gaming channels, respond to questions about gaming.
My theory, is that if we manage to slip DarkSpace into such a mail, about a gaming topic, to one of these youtubes, then we could draw some attention to the game.
It sounds like something an evil genious would only think of, but at least it's something.
I could give some suggestions about who to mail with such e-mails, but I won't since this post might get deleted for advertising or something. Though, I don't see who I would be advertising to.
Anyway, another idea is to just ask nicely for these youtube gaming channels to somehow talk about DarkSpace.
Gamers who do youtube videos to make a living are much more nicer people than one might think. They usually welcome the opportunity to attend charity events, advertise kickstarters, and yes, even advertise games which aren't doing so well.
What I'm trying to say is, you don't need money to advertise. You just need to ask nicely.
I am truly hoping we, the community, manage to save this game. It is truly unique, not just the mechanics and all the technical stuff behind it, but the people in the community, the staff, the lore, everything.
DarkSpace has one thing that almost no other MMO has. the developers actively interact with the community. They respect and understand the community, and the community understands and respects them. There is this feeling of trust between the community and the staff.
And, I fear that if we don't do something about getting more people, this game, with it's brilliant staff and community, could die out. And none of us want this.
On the other hand ofcourse, there is the problems of too much players.
Just, imagine for a second that DarkSpace does get mentioned in some major gaming news channel, or whatever. Imagine if 200,000 people become interested in it.
What then? Will the servers hold up? Will the website hold up?
And most importantly, will this trust and understanding between the dev team and community hold up. I have no doubt in the staff, but with more players, you get more nonsensical suggestions, more players who don't know what they're doing. The staff are close with the community because they know it so well. they have been players, like the community, and they understand what it's like to want to change something, and the differance between wanting to change it, and being able to. That's what the trust is based on.
But, when the community grows out of proportions, what then? So many new people, maybe even too much.
It's a very big risk. If you get a massive amount of players, you risk destroying the current community. With so little players, you risk the game dying out after some time. It's a risk, and I think that both the community and the staff should decide if mass advertising is a good idea.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-07-02 06:55
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On 2012-07-01 14:22, Cold Death wrote:
My theory, is that if we manage to slip DarkSpace into such a mail, about a gaming topic, to one of these youtubes, then we could draw some attention to the game.
It sounds like something an evil genious would only think of, but at least it's something.
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it sure is a branch of of planning methodologies used by evil scientists (and their modern degree-holding counterparts).
one mention, one small mention, said to the right person or group at the right time and under the right circumstances and relations, can escalate the importance given to that mentioned thing. at best, they would start talking about it as if they have known it for weeks, months. Lifetimes.
but we would need an evil mastermind to calculate the proper requirements, and ways to fulfill them. until then, befriend as many useful people as possible, and see if in normal gossip you can sneak in the game's name.
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On the other hand ofcourse, there is the problems of too much players.
Just, imagine for a second that DarkSpace does get mentioned in some major gaming news channel, or whatever. Imagine if 200,000 people become interested in it.
What then? Will the servers hold up? Will the website hold up?
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the 2 servers can probably handle 2×500 players at a time. most players would play between 30 minutes and 2 hours. so that means, on average, room for 20'000 players, give/take 1000.
and then, out of them 20k, assume 1k want to buy credits (during their first week in DS  ). a lot of revenue would start coming, and if Big Faustus sees fit, he may greatly expand the game servers available for playing (imagine 50 servers by end of month). and that increases room for even more new players. a Virtuous Cycle, economically speaking.
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And most importantly, will this trust and understanding between the dev team and community hold up. I have no doubt in the staff, but with more players, you get more nonsensical suggestions, more players who don't know what they're doing.
But, when the community grows out of proportions, what then? So many new people, maybe even too much.
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then that would mean there would be need for more staff slash volunteers to help newbies play the game and enjoy it, and manage game in general (you need atleast 1 moderator per 100 people, 1 per 30 if all chatting).
as for the clueless newbies...  make new fleets under a new DarkSpace Academy aegis -
St. Coombie School of Prestige-making (SCSP)
Privateers Academy (PA)
Space Explorers Organisation (SEO)
UGTO Engineer Corps
ICC Civil Supply Department
K'Luth Cloak Council
League of Machine Hunters
Hug a Pirate Club
Battle Training Institute
Strategic Siege Team
Traders of Enhancements
and so on. if there is a need, we just have to come forward and fulfill it.
neglection would be sorta saddening..but i think atleast I can manage with it. hopefully others will be able to too.
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Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2012-07-02 07:12
But, this could all happed, presuming the idea would work.
We have two options.
To ask nicely someone to help DarkSpace. And there are people who are willing to do this, especially youtube gamers.
Or, to slip it in some fan mail and hope for the best.
I think that if the community wants to, we could write an e-mail to one such person and ask them to.. advertise the game, really.
And, due to what Raje said, I don't think we need to worry about the problems I mentioned in my earlier post.
Now then, here comes the hard part. Who do we send the request to?
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-07-02 08:31
Massively.com featured DarkSpace in their screenshot column once. They say they are always interested in Indie games, so maybe if we beg hard enough they'll do an article on DarkSpace.
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Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2012-07-02 09:49
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On 2012-07-02 08:31, Bardiche wrote:
Massively.com featured DarkSpace in their screenshot column once. They say they are always interested in Indie games, so maybe if we beg hard enough they'll do an article on DarkSpace.
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Well, let's do it then!
I'm sure massively have an e-mail for submitting games for review.
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Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2012-07-11 14:33
Well, I actually found something interesting..
I talked about the possibility of advertising the game by somehow mantioning it on other, more famous, gaming channels(on youtube ofc) and such.
I found a youtuber called "TotalHalibut". He is a professional gamer and also he's a StarCraft II caster, from what I saw on his channel he most recently casted the "Ironsquid" tournament(on his second channel ("TotalBiscuit"). I'm saying this because I know there are some people who play SCII here. Anyway, he does YT vids of games for a living.
Why am I telling you this?
He has this iregular series called "Why we can't have nice things", and it's about old games which should have been famous for one reason or another, but weren't.
I'm certain DarkSpace falls into this category, for it's time I'm sure it would have been a "revolutionary" game. It was released(as far as I'm aware) way before WoW, EvE or any other popular MMO these days.
I watched through some of his recent vids, and it turns out he is busy right now, so until he gets back from wherever he is, he said there won't be a lot of new content, so I doubt he'll be making a new episode in the series mentioned before.
So, here's the challenge. We need to get his attention. We need to somehow ask him to make a vid about DarkSpace. If that happens, and that's a very big "if", then DarkSpace will certainly have a big enough playerbase for it to continue.
So, can we do it? Do we want to? Let's find out...
P.S I'm sorry if this sounds like advertising, I just don't see another way to present this "opportunity".
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{Arcane|cat}
Admiral
Joined: September 09, 2010
Posts: 31
From: {cat}
| Posted: 2012-07-11 15:12
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On 2012-07-11 14:33, Cold Death wrote:
Well, I actually found something interesting..
I talked about the possibility of advertising the game by somehow mantioning it on other, more famous, gaming channels(on youtube ofc) and such.
I found a youtuber called "TotalHalibut". He is a professional gamer and also he's a StarCraft II caster, from what I saw on his channel he most recently casted the "Ironsquid" tournament(on his second channel ("TotalBiscuit"). I'm saying this because I know there are some people who play SCII here. Anyway, he does YT vids of games for a living.
Why am I telling you this?
He has this iregular series called "Why we can't have nice things", and it's about old games which should have been famous for one reason or another, but weren't.
I'm certain DarkSpace falls into this category, for it's time I'm sure it would have been a "revolutionary" game. It was released(as far as I'm aware) way before WoW, EvE or any other popular MMO these days.
I watched through some of his recent vids, and it turns out he is busy right now, so until he gets back from wherever he is, he said there won't be a lot of new content, so I doubt he'll be making a new episode in the series mentioned before.
So, here's the challenge. We need to get his attention. We need to somehow ask him to make a vid about DarkSpace. If that happens, and that's a very big "if", then DarkSpace will certainly have a big enough playerbase for it to continue.
So, can we do it? Do we want to? Let's find out...
P.S I'm sorry if this sounds like advertising, I just don't see another way to present this "opportunity".
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+1..
Actually, take an example from Terraria, TotalHalibut, and loads other Youtube videos, allowed the game to grow, I believe this the only option left, its up to the Developers...
The admiral,
Arcanecat
[ This Message was edited by: {arcane|cat}-feline-(rogue) on 2012-07-11 15:12 ]
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