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How do you fight the K'luth at a low rank? |
Don Karnage
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: April 28, 2012
Posts: 9
|  Posted: 2012-06-07 23:22
Hey, I'm currently at the rank of captain, and the best combat ship available to me is the combat destroyer.
How are you supposed to fight the kluth? I've tried the blind firing thing but that's only good for about 2 or 3 bursts, and you can't really tell if your shots are hitting a cloaked target unless you're close because the graphic fades out.
They uncloak or point jump, I jump a short distance or fly out of range, and then they cloak before I can even get off more than 4-5 bursts of fire.
When they do this I just fly away, and then they try and point-jump me, I counter jump, and the whole cycle continues, neither side gets hurt, but if I slip up I can easily die, whereas I need to shoot them for several minutes to do the same.
Someone told me that small ships suck against the k'luth, but I really don't have any other options here!
EDIT: I just want to add that, when fighting the UGTO, the combat destroyer performs well. Not overpoweredly, but as long as you try and utilize their advantages the fights are usually fun and engaging.
But then the K'luth come and fun time's over for the little folks.
[ This Message was edited by: Don Karnage on 2012-06-07 23:26 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-08 00:44
That's about what you can expect vs. luth if you're by yourself, you'll have an easier time with targets if there's a bunch of people around.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-06-08 01:41
You don't fight K'Luth at low rank. They're designed to always have the advantage in combat if they so please, except when it comes to numbers, and there's no way they'll engage a combat destroyer at a range where the destroyer has combat advantage.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2012-06-08 02:36
Don't even bother taking any small ship in against k'luth. You will never succeed.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-06-08 03:08
Let's put it this way. You can't fight the Kluth effectively alone.
And Kluth can't really fight effectively alone either.
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SpaceAdmiral
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 05, 2010
Posts: 1005
| Posted: 2012-06-08 03:18
Alone in a small ship vs luth large ship you can't do much. This goes for both UGTO and ICC. If the Kluth is using a small ship because he also is a low rank then you can engage but he will likely be able to close distance with cloak.
Like others have mentioned Kluth requires pack hunting to accomplish things, and the human factions need cover fire/ECCM/beacons which can only be provided by a group.
In a fleet battle the best you can do in a small ship is just do some supporting fire and try not to draw attention to yourself. If the enemy fleet has a small kluth ship you can go after them.
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Challenger
Marshal
Joined: March 28, 2002
Posts: 886
| Posted: 2012-06-08 03:38
Quote:
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On 2012-06-08 00:44, Talien wrote:
That's about what you can expect vs. luth if you're by yourself, you'll have an easier time with targets if there's a bunch of people around.
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+1... Hit the nail on the head
But Don you are a good pilot to recognize this problem. Most newer players would just shrug their shoulders and not look for strategy and die a lot. So kuddos to you for figuring out what you did thus far, keep up the effort.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-06-08 03:40
After reading the comments, I believe Luth has been overrated.
Have any of you guys ever used low rank Luth ship and counter human combat/assualt cruiser/dread?
It's totally ridiculous that you find it's easy to use a small ship and stays higher-hand against a big ship. DS's genre is not HnS. Any tricks? Tricks are mostly applied against NPC, right?
There is no Beat-'em-up ship for player in DS, sorry about that.
There was a model of marshal ships, which feature powerful frigate/destroyer, but again it's not suit for beat-'em-up or H&S tasking.
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Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
| Posted: 2012-06-08 04:04
Quote:
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On 2012-06-08 03:40, chlorophyll wrote:
After reading the comments, I believe Luth has been overrated.
Have any of you guys ever used low rank Luth ship and counter human combat/assualt cruiser/dread?
It's totally ridiculous that you find it's easy to use a small ship and stays higher-hand against a big ship. DS's genre is not HnS. Any tricks? Tricks are mostly applied against NPC, right?
There is no Beat-'em-up ship for player in DS, sorry about that.
There was a model of marshal ships, which feature powerful frigate/destroyer, but again it's not suit for beat-'em-up or H&S tasking.
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Do you think there is a reason, as in this example ICC, why smaller ships are commonly used against dreds?
It is a far more effective solution then our own flying moon-sized pieces of scrap metal.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-06-08 05:12
Quote:
| On 2012-06-08 04:04, iwancoppa wrote:
Do you think there is a reason, as in this example ICC, why smaller ships are commonly used against dreds? |
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Same thing applied to UGTO.
But have you ever seen a player pick Luth destroyer and go attacking an ICC dread?
Quote:
| On 2012-06-08 04:04, iwancoppa wrote:
It is a far more effective solution then our own flying moon-sized pieces of scrap metal. |
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What you say, again, stated that Luth is overrated.
You notice that Luth flies moon-sized organic flower even more seldom than ICC, don't you?
Cloak isn't everything. You can hit planet when ejump. And you can die when you select the jumping point.
Scarab was popular thanks to Pakhos and Kenny Naboo - they showed mining was joyful. Besides that, Luth cruiser is not as excellent as human's is.
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Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
| Posted: 2012-06-08 05:31
Alone in a destroyer/cruiser:
if you manage to outmaneuver and blindfire a Kluth Dread to death you must be very good or the enemy bad.
Use ECCM.
The Dread will decide when the battle ends usaly, by killing you or ignoring you.
You have to play like Kluth yourself and wait for THEM to apear, hit em distracted.
If you feel like you´re going to be jumped, fly at high speed and do some hooks.
Sometimes you should try to fly straight through him once you got too close and he managed to put his nose on you, then stay at his tail, he cant turn as fast as you (in a dread).
Vs smaller kluth ships it might be good to break and save energy as you cant dodge his beams anyway.
Try to get good at blindfiring, it might help in later team battles.
I find it hard to do blindfire with beams, so i focus on projectiles.
If you see a Kluth station, get near it under maximum Missile range.
circle at highspeed in front of the Hive/Colony, Many new players fear stats though they can be prestige-farms once you not in harpex/shroud sweet spot.
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Painfulangel
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 188
From: Exathra
| Posted: 2012-06-08 05:37
Quote:
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If you see a Kluth station, get near it under maximum Missile range.
circle at highspeed in front of the Hive/Colony, Many new players fear stats though they can be prestige-farms once you not in harpex/shroud sweet spot.
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Thank you for giving away our secret 
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2012-06-08 06:17
As many have said, the key to fighting Kluth is to never fight them alone, whether you are in a Combat Destroyer or in a Combat Dreadnaught.
Kluth DO have the advantage of cloak, however, Kluth for the majority of their ships are close ranged. Here are a few tips as a small ship:
1. Speed, speed, speed. Never sit still, always be moving. And always be running ECCM, if possible. Cloak requires energy, and if they have to try to keep up with you, you'll drain it. Cloak requires more energy to maintain when more ECCM is active, so a combination of these factors always makes it much more difficult to bother with you.
2. Always fly with friends. Already said, but I can't repeat it enough. The first casualty in any fight vs. Kluth is the one that is by itself. When you fly with friends, not only can you keep signature higher, they can quickly respond to sneak attacks. If you are all using the above advice, unless Kluth actually has superior numbers at the the time they probably won't even attack.
3. If you don't have speed, use defense. For the bigger ships on the human factions, I see far too often people not recognizing the benefits of defense vs. Kluth. The amount of energy that a Kluth ship will burn through is much much faster than its human counterparts. An Assault Dreadnaught with defense enhancements can reliably withstand the firepower of two Kluth Dreadnaughts.
Thats personal experience.
And always, always fly with friends dammit. I play Kluth a lot as well, and this is such a huge mistake I see every single time. Players sit still, they sit alone, and they make themselves easier targets.
K'luth is percieved as overpowered in many respects because players make it easy for them succeed.
I should also strongly mention the fragility of the cloaking device itself. 1% of damage to a cloaking device means that ship cannot cloak completely. It also takes forever to repair. And despite UGTO having EMP weapons, they never use them.
The day players stop making it easy for them, they won't be so tough.
Quote:
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On 2012-06-08 03:40, chlorophyll wrote:
After reading the comments, I believe Luth has been overrated.
Have any of you guys ever used low rank Luth ship and counter human combat/assualt cruiser/dread?
It's totally ridiculous that you find it's easy to use a small ship and stays higher-hand against a big ship. DS's genre is not HnS. Any tricks? Tricks are mostly applied against NPC, right?
There is no Beat-'em-up ship for player in DS, sorry about that.
There was a model of marshal ships, which feature powerful frigate/destroyer, but again it's not suit for beat-'em-up or H&S tasking.
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I actually am using an alt right now and yes, low rnak Kluth ships can attack Dreads, however, it is very, very difficult. A Claw is more than capable of killing an EAD with superior tactics, but you're likely to get fried if you're not good at dodging and timing your attacks on a specific arc.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2012-06-08 06:17 ]
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Don Karnage
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: April 28, 2012
Posts: 9
| Posted: 2012-06-08 07:02
Thanks for the feedback.
I was making a point of staying near my allies whenever possible, usually escorting our dreadnoughts, especially the one flying a missile dread (which didn't seem to be a wise choice of ship at the time...), and going after attacking k'luth cruisers.
The ship called the Siphon though... that thing is a pain.
I flew over the top of one that uncloaked on me to get out of that deadly beam array, and pressed numpad 8 as fast as i could and I STILL took about 25% hull damage from a single burst, with my other 3 shields at about 50%
I thought I got through unscathed with only shield damage, but then the client updates several seconds later and the whole frontal arc goes down and the engines ignite.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2012-06-08 07:11
Quote:
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On 2012-06-08 07:02, Don Karnage wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
I was making a point of staying near my allies whenever possible, usually escorting our dreadnoughts, especially the one flying a missile dread (which didn't seem to be a wise choice of ship at the time...), and going after attacking k'luth cruisers.
The ship called the Siphon though... that thing is a pain.
I flew over the top of one that uncloaked on me to get out of that deadly beam array, and pressed numpad 8 as fast as i could and I STILL took about 25% hull damage from a single burst, with my other 3 shields at about 50%
I thought I got through unscathed with only shield damage, but then the client updates several seconds later and the whole frontal arc goes down and the engines ignite.
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When you get uncloaked right on top of, unless you are a Dread, jump away.
Jump drives recharge fairly quickly, and thus you can return to the battle on your own terms.
-Ent
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