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Grouping being used to grief newbies |
Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
|  Posted: 2012-06-20 16:06
its no worse than high ranks going in scen and killing newbs in engies and laughing about it.seen several do that.some in respectable fleets.really good way to treat newbs.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Faster than Light
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 507
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-20 20:52
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On 2012-06-20 16:06, Fatal Command (CO) wrote:
its no worse than high ranks going in scen and killing newbs in engies and laughing about it.seen several do that.some in respectable fleets.really good way to treat newbs.
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Okay, I made a thread about it, but on Devil Dog's insistance I asked for deletion.
But this is just too much. I know of no members of FTL who have ever killed newbs and engis in scen. Can you please be more specific?
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-06-20 22:01
Quote:
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On 2012-06-20 16:06, Fatal Command (CO) wrote:
its no worse than high ranks going in scen and killing newbs in engies and laughing about it.seen several do that.some in respectable fleets.really good way to treat newbs.
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Yes I'm curious as well. I've heard FTL brought up by you several times by you and saying that we do such things. Next time instead of slandering fleets can you let the fleet leaders know what occurred so the issue can be addressed? Thanks a lot.
Now as to groups, i kinda agree that grouping needs to be addressed, but in a game like this there needs to be some sort of penalty or it would be easy to take advantage of and power level. Not sure the best way to fix it, just that it should prob be looked at. 
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Point Of No Return
Chief Marshal
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 24, 2007
Posts: 78
| Posted: 2012-06-20 23:37
To be totally honest why have prestige lose at all it does not promote the game. People who just come into the game are low rank anyway and most times they have to fight high rank veterans in beefed up ships and this is the case most often for new ICC pilots. As a result of this I have often refused to group with newer pilots or worse grouped with them and had to avoid combat in a combat game. Ive earned my rank flying ICC through some of the most darkest times and will remain, but it is my hope that prestige lose for all under dred rank is removed. I have nothing to gain but new pilots can only benifit and hopefully stay in game longer before being frustrated with the group prestige penalities.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-06-21 02:15
Quote:
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On 2012-06-20 23:37, Point Of No Return wrote:
To be totally honest why have prestige lose at all it does not promote the game. People who just come into the game are low rank anyway and most times they have to fight high rank veterans in beefed up ships and this is the case most often for new ICC pilots. As a result of this I have often refused to group with newer pilots or worse grouped with them and had to avoid combat in a combat game. Ive earned my rank flying ICC through some of the most darkest times and will remain, but it is my hope that prestige lose for all under dred rank is removed. I have nothing to gain but new pilots can only benifit and hopefully stay in game longer before being frustrated with the group prestige penalities.
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Not a bad idea. But don't make it too easy.
Remove pres penalty for ship destruction only, until the player reaches Admiral.
Other penalties should remain. Scrapping, etc.
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2012-06-21 18:18
im pretty sure somethink like this have been up before, but why not remove pres-loss completely and implemetnt other things to avoid suicide respawning / planet griefing?
maybe something like this
pres-gain - much lower
pres-lost - completely gone for ship destruction
pres-lost - for hurting teammates / scraping planets - nothing changed
group with others
- player dealing damage ( repair / building...) gain pres as normal ( but the lowered value)
- other players recieve 10% of that value (everyone)
- pres-lost isnt shared at all
a destroyed ship will go to garage but need repairs... time needed is per hull level, with scouts & frigs being avaible instantly, and stations take up to ... duno 2-5min... and while theyre being repaired, you also cant delete them
->
- you cant get demoted for things you should do (fighting enemys)
- player progress can be controlled (at least for new players), with a higher gain, people wold be able to rank up faster
- the penalty for griefing would be much higher (since you cant replace lost pres as fast)
- and the repair-time penalty might reduce station- spam
some additional ideas for this:
- players get 1 additional garage-slot, that is limited to scout/frigs only
- people could buy enchants affecting pres gain, eg increasing grouping presgain from 10% to 15% or increase overall gain +5% both with only 1 durability, and maybe limited to smaler ships (eg up to dessies)
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GunsOfHonor
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 31, 2011
Posts: 191
| Posted: 2012-06-22 10:17
Can we just remove Grouping its a waste and a pain.
maybe some of the numbies stay in the game if they didnt group when they lose all pres and then some
Just do away with it all together plz
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No other option
Admiral
Joined: March 17, 2011
Posts: 8
| Posted: 2012-06-22 11:47
Don't remove grouping. Me and my brothers are always in a group togther.
As for what this post is about I can't say that I have ever seen it done myself so it's certainly not being done on a scale that warrants complete removal of it for the people who do use it as it's meant to be used.
Say even that what they claim does happen some, what about all the times that it does not happen? all the times that it helps the newcomers?
Sure grouping requires some common sense but it is fine just the way it is...
Si-
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CM7
Midshipman
Faster than Light
Joined: October 15, 2009
Posts: 1812
| Posted: 2012-06-22 19:44
???
so this talk we are supposed to be having command?
Also, putting the current state of the game squarly on new vets shoulders is lame.
[ This Message was edited by: Defiance*CO* on 2012-06-22 19:47 ]
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Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CC*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: February 08, 2010
Posts: 540
From: Spokane WA.
| Posted: 2012-06-22 20:23
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On 2012-06-19 12:18, HeadHunter111 wrote:
You have a point, flutter.
The way groups work is ridiculous. If you have 5 people in a group, do 4 of them have to suffer for the fact that someone is flying like an idiot or is intentionally doing badly? I don't think they should.
I think the group system is.. exploitable in a way. It's very easy to demote someone if he's in a group with you. The fact is that people have a lot of pres these days and dying in a station is not a real problem for them.
A Group has to be benefitial to the people in it. If someone decides to ram in a planet just because it seems fun, that doesn't mean the entire group had to suffer from it.
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theres a option to accept or deny. most players will invite others to hlp them lvl however if a higher ranking player dies you loose more press than u would if u wern'y in a group. a lot of time in combat a player doesn't think about leaving the group b4 he dies he's too busy trying to stay alive so if u see someone dieing then said player can leave the group b4 that happens. plain and simple if u group u gain more press and can loose more to, like a double edge swoard. i have been in a station and died while grouped and demoted a player b4 i felt bad but it wasn't on purpose. now if a player groups with someone then selfdestrucs out of spite then report them. also join a fleet and group with them it's safer that way
[ This Message was edited by: Died~2000~Deaths[+R]*CO* on 2012-06-22 20:26 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2012-06-23 12:20
At the very least, put some BIG RED LETTERS so that a NEWBIE will KNOW that by joining a group, they can lose SEVERAL DAYS OF PRESTIGE if someone in a bigger ship gets killed.
Yes, the newbie has the option of yes or no.
No, the newbie does not have the knowledge to know the danger of it.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-06-23 22:13
Before you guys go at each other's throats in a fine forum fugfest, I'd just like to point out:
- Having a red "Newbie" indicator tagged onto a player's name might actually work against said person. There are griefers out there who'll specifically target this group.
- You can't simply alter pres loss in a group to only affect some players in a group.
Your stats are inter-related; ergo, they're are calculated off of each other. Pres is calculated off some of your other stats like damage done, bombing, etc etc.
As mentioned, one way... and prob the simplest.... to reduce pres loss for noobs is to add flags to some of the stats that relates to ship destruction or ship loss. But only up to a certain rank. This shields them from being ganked for fun, or sabotaged by grouping.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't expect the players to regulate this aspect of the game. It has to be controlled at the game mechanics level.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-06-23 22:32 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-06-23 23:52
Quote:
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On 2012-06-23 22:13, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
- You can't simply alter pres loss in a group to only affect some players in a group.
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well, say you're in a group as a low ranking noobie and you get incurred resources lost from somebody else in the group. We could, theoretically, lower the resources lost you would get from the other group member and thus suffer less prestige loss from the actions of other players
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Guyton (Angel of Death)
Marshal
Joined: January 25, 2004
Posts: 706
| Posted: 2012-06-24 07:02
We should revert back to the days of the "Newbie" and "Admiral" servers. In these smaller scenarios new players have the ability to test out game mechanics and have the option to enter the veterans heaven "Metaverse" when they are ready to participate with Fleets. In all honesty, scenarios were the hotspots before we tried to force activity into the larger maps. Things such as gathering resources from various locations to build certain structures encouraged teamwork. Mostly new players were not lost at sea.
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