| Author |
Darkspace 1.6.7.4 |
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
|  Posted: 2012-08-03 19:03
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 18:13, -Daedalus- wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 10:12, Pantheon wrote:
We'll hopefully be releasing some sort of patch this weekend. It might not have the auras, new torpedoes, or defence changes, as we haven't had enough feedback on these particular things to deem them ready to release.
We do have some important backend fixes for server issues and other misc stuff though, which you can see in the Development Log.
|
|
Can anything be done to make platforms a little more useful in the game? Even increasing the number you can have may help. That would balance out that they are too easy to kill and the weapon plats forget to fire.
|
|
What if... we made them more useful but reduced the numbers you can deploy? :D
_________________
|
Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-08-03 19:20
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 18:47, Talien wrote:
Except it's not a buff. Shields being remade in the image of UGTO style armor is in no way a good thing.
|
|
I Honestly wish you would give a reason for this instead of just repeating it everywhere and ignoring all the counter arguments to it. Please stop it.
_________________
|
-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2012-08-03 19:32
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 19:03, Bardiche wrote:
What if... we made them more useful but reduced the numbers you can deploy? 
|
|
Depends on what your plan is for them it may be something to think about. I like running around making plats but to have them sit and do nothing and be killed crushesmy sprits.
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2012-08-03 20:15 ]
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-03 20:45
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 19:20, Fattierob wrote:
I Honestly wish you would give a reason for this instead of just repeating it everywhere and ignoring all the counter arguments to it. Please stop it.
|
|
I have. But once again.....
Shields with weaknesses are a liability, especially since they cannot be repaired during combat. EMP/ELF as a weakness wasn't bad because those don't do a whole lot of damage to begin with and they aren't exactly the most common, but they actually made sense as a weakness. Armor with a weakness is an annoyance, but the benefit of having the ability to be repaired during combat via drones/repair field makes up for it.
You're pretty well guaranteed to be hit with whatever your weakness is if you're in anything larger than a Destroyer, so you have the choice of a shield that's almost certain to get toasted by whatever it's weak to, or a shield with no resistance/weakness but high energy drain. For Destroyers and smaller it doesn't matter so much since their shields pretty well end up as candidates for Ron Pitts' show regardless of what hits them.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-08-03 22:13
hey..talien..
shield changes would make them easy to use.
ranged warfare? use skirmish or active shields.
assault ship? use reactive for targets with beams, skirmish for targets with guns/torps
EW tactics? use reactive or active shields for fighting kluth, and reactive for fighting under ecm cover.
and about repairing ability of armor..
we have been facing that since 3 years. if its going to be changed it should be in a dedicated patch (like depot change).
im looking forward to 1.675, if 674 doesnt have shield changes.
_________________
Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-08-04 03:24
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 19:32, -Daedalus- wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-03 19:03, Bardiche wrote:
What if... we made them more useful but reduced the numbers you can deploy? :D
|
|
Depends on what your plan is for them it may be something to think about. I like running around making plats but to have them sit and do nothing and be killed crushesmy sprits.
|
|
Noted. :D
As far as shield changes go: Talien, those same shields with weaknesses also have strengths. A Destroyer with anti-projectile can stay out of Dreadnought beam range and last a whole lot longer.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2012-08-04 03:28 ]
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-04 08:45
You're both assuming that the other side will play nice and ignore you if they have weapons that would counter your shield setup.
You're assuming your AD won't get spammed by missiles and/or fighters while you're engaging that other assault ship up close, and you're assuming your MD or SS won't get jumped by assault ships while you're hanging back launching missiles. Both of these are extremely common occurences, and once it happens your shields are gone and you don't get them back until you've exited combat. For Destroyers on down it doesn't matter as much since a good pilot can avoid most non beam damage as long as it's not point blank. For Cruisers it's still somewhat of an issue.
Against luth it's kinda pointless since the Mandible has a nice mix of armament types.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-08-04 09:03
Personally, I assume that UGTO and ICC players are equally capable of determining what damage resistance they need most depending on the situation.
Any other alleged assumptions I make are presumptions on your part.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2012-08-04 09:04 ]
_________________
|
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2012-08-04 10:12
if the opponent can guess what kind of shields are you using, then you can also guess what type of armor is opponent using.
shields take only 30% more damage from their antidote weapons, as opposed to ugto's 50%. the disadvantage from being tactically outsmarted is not that severe, and high regeneration can reduce the impact.
shields (or any defence in general) should be decided by both the player's playstyle and the kind of ships the player would choose to attack.
so a team of strike cruisers and assault cruisers can all take skirmish shields for attacking a fleet of missile ships and gun boats, or all reactive shields for fighting a fleet of assault ships.
or, strike cruisers can use reactive shields for fighting greedy assault ships while assault cruisers use skirmish shields for approaching fighter carriers and missile ships.
then again, the same applies to ugto. and its historically proven that ugto are dumber than icc
_________________
Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
|
DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-08-04 11:58
Quote:
| - The Cloak gadget will no longer mask less signature depending on the damage it has taken, and will instead increase the total cloaking time. |
|
A tricky move to force Kluth to fly Dread wisely.
I just want to say can we have at least an aft armor on Kluth small ships? Delete a beam and leave room for aft armor. Without aft armor, small Luth ships have a flash death. I wonder why small ships need to be more fragile that way.
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-04 13:33
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-04 10:12, Raje wrote:
if the opponent can guess what kind of shields are you using, then you can also guess what type of armor is opponent using.
shields take only 30% more damage from their antidote weapons, as opposed to ugto's 50%. the disadvantage from being tactically outsmarted is not that severe, and high regeneration can reduce the impact.
shields (or any defence in general) should be decided by both the player's playstyle and the kind of ships the player would choose to attack.
so a team of strike cruisers and assault cruisers can all take skirmish shields for attacking a fleet of missile ships and gun boats, or all reactive shields for fighting a fleet of assault ships.
or, strike cruisers can use reactive shields for fighting greedy assault ships while assault cruisers use skirmish shields for approaching fighter carriers and missile ships.
then again, the same applies to ugto. and its historically proven that ugto are dumber than icc
|
|
Again, I'll point out that armor can be repaired during combat via drones/repair field while shields can't. If a UGTO ship gets blasted by their weakness they can simply jump to the nearest planet with a depot and a few platforms and still repair if someone chases after and continues to shoot them even with the wrong type of armor for the damage they're taking, being out of combat or not doesn't matter much. Shields having higher natural regen than armor does not make up for having a weakness, if an ICC ship jumps to a planet with a depot and a few plats they still often get killed if someone follows them and continues to attack even WITH the proper shields to resist the damage they're taking, let alone the type they're weak against.
Shields having slight to medium resistances, say 15-20%, to everything but weak to EMP/ELF would not only make it simpler to design (2 shields. Higher cap/higher power use/lower regen vs. lower cap/lower power use/higher regen) but would also be a worthwhile advantage over armor with tailored resistances and in combat repair.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-08-04 15:45
So much opposition.
You know what, Tal? How about we remove all subtypes of armors or shields? Simply make it ARMOR and SHIELDS. No special resistances against kinetic or otherwise.
Armor simply has more HP, and shield simply has less HP and more regen. And you still get your ass kicked when someone follows you to your home planet. Let's go back to the DS 1.5, while we're at it?
How does that bite you?
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2012-08-04 15:53
Quote:
| if an ICC ship jumps to a planet with a depot and a few plats they still often get killed if someone follows them and continues to attack even WITH the proper shields to resist the damage they're taking, let alone the type they're weak against. |
|
How do you know someone will often get killed in those situations when we haven't even introduced shields with resists into Release?
_________________
|
Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-08-04 16:48
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-04 15:45, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:
So much opposition.
You know what, Tal? How about we remove all subtypes of armors or shields? Simply make it ARMOR and SHIELDS. No special resistances against kinetic or otherwise.
Armor simply has more HP, and shield simply has less HP and more regen. And you still get your ass kicked when someone follows you to your home planet.
|
|
That honestly wouldn't bother me. Infact something similar had been mentioned before, just have standard armor the way it is then heavy armor with more HP and more mass, and light armor with less HP and less mass, and Active/Reactive with no resists and just higher/lower HP, regen, and energy use.
Quote:
|
On 2012-08-04 15:53, Bardiche wrote:
How do you know someone will often get killed in those situations when we haven't even introduced shields with resists into Release?
|
|
It already happens with the current Active/Reactive setup, a damaged ship with an outer defensive layer without augmented repair capability is still a damaged ship with an outer defensive layer without augmented repair capability regardless of what kind of resistances that outer layer may have. Afterall, resistances don't apply when that outer defensive layer is gone. The only thing that would really prevent it would be jumping to a planet that's loaded to the gills with offense bases, but that has less to do with the shields than the planet beating the crap out of whoever's following you.
But let's test it out tomorrow in beta just to see, I'd say let's do so now but I'm on my way out the door in about 5 minutes for D&D night. Or you could grab someone else and find out tonight, either way.
_________________
Adapt or die.
|
-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
| Posted: 2012-08-04 20:28
Quote:
|
What if... we made them more useful but reduced the numbers you can deploy?
|
|
Put the new tracking ion torps on them rather then just normal ions.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
