On 2012-09-22 16:47, -DBS wrote:
Guess ill get out my Siphon and sit ontop of ICC stats for now on...

On 2012-09-22 15:58, Fatal Brutality [CE] *COM* wrote:
Yes there is ways to shoot within minimum Range with the ganglia. You can however, use this technique also with the MD. Not sure its an exploit, but maybe should be fixed in a future patch as minimum range was put in for a reason? just an idea.

On 2012-09-22 23:13, Kenny_Naboo[+R] wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-09-22 15:58, Fatal Brutality [CE] *COM* wrote: Yes there is ways to shoot within minimum Range with the ganglia. You can however, use this technique also with the MD. Not sure its an exploit, but maybe should be fixed in a future patch as minimum range was put in for a reason? just an idea.

You mean firing at the enemy from an oblique angle?

That's a known tactic. Missiles don't calculate the actual straight line distance between u and the target. It uses flight time to arm.

On 2012-09-22 10:39, Whiterin wrote:
Alright, so it may not be so much of a rant, as it is a list of things I have noticed lately with Luth. With all issues I will list here, there were other players there that withnessed the issue as well. On discussing it in game, I have found that other players have experienced all of the issues outside of the times I experienced them.

- Station camping
Not so much of a glitch or bug, it's pretty unfair, and I don't think it was intended as a game mechanic. Part of a station's job is to shield smaller or damaged ships. Some Luth players have been using this to there advantage, however. There have been several times where luth players, sometimes several of them at once, spawn siphons and sit on "top" of ICC stations. This makes it impossible to hit them with anything but beams, and since a siphon is a beam heavy ship, it gives them free reign to fire on anyone while remaing in relative safety of the enemy's station. This shouldn't be possible to do and can cause major balance issues in game.

- Shroud Missles
While I personally feel these things are pretty OP normally (invisible, hard to detect even with ECCM, powerful, fast reload time, more accurate then the most accurate small missles of other factions), that's not the point of this post. Earlier today, myself and some other ICC were fighting stations. We were being hit, with nearly 100% accuracy, by shroud missles. The problem with this is, we were at point blank range, 200 gu or closer away from the station. We were being hit by beams and missles from the same station. Asking around, I found the minimum range of shrouds to be 300-350 gu... yet they were hitting, with great accuracy, at 200 gu, and sometimes even closer then that. I'm not sure if it's a glitch, abuse of game mechanics, or what... but it's pretty insane to be able to be hit by beams and missles at the same time while fighting.

- Insane levels of defense power. I am pretty sure this is a glitch/abuse, and not the new changes to Chit armor. A few times over the past few days, myself and other ICC have run into luth ships that defy what luth ships can do. Siphons that can tank MULTIPLE dreads, including damage enh ADs, with ease and stations that take so little damage they can out repair the damage multiple dreads shooting them. This has happened on three seperate ocasions that just I have witnessed. I know though, that I am not the only one that has found this occuring. I have seen others talking about it as well. In all cases I have seen, these ships/stations have had ZERO defense type enh. Also, I can not stress how much of a difference I am talking about. I am talking about siphons without enhs that are taking as much damage as defense enh ICC or UGTO dread.

Now. Sorry for the long reads. I would ask that any other players, ICC or Luth, that have run into these issues please post. I know that a great many ICC other then myself have run into at least one of these issues, so please come forward. The more details we can get out there, the better. Thanks!
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2012-09-22 11:27 ]

On 2012-09-22 16:47, -DBS wrote:
Guess ill get out my Siphon and sit ontop of ICC stats for now on...

On 2012-09-23 02:00, Fatal Brutality [CE] *COM* wrote:

nah thats not exacly what I refering to. Both Harpex and shrouds arm well within minimum arming distance. All you gotta really do is click a point behind the ship your trying to hit and boom missiles hit within minimum range, often without time for PD to counter any missiles.

On 2012-09-23 13:14, |xTc|-ExisT *XO* wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-09-23 02:00, Fatal Brutality [CE] *COM* wrote: nah thats not exacly what I refering to. Both Harpex and shrouds arm well within minimum arming distance. All you gotta really do is click a point behind the ship your trying to hit and boom missiles hit within minimum range, often without time for PD to counter any missiles.

Actually, missles dont arm till they've travelled their minimun firing distance.
So you cant point jump someone with a MD and click and fire behind them, like you said. It may hit them, but itll do no damage because it hasnt reached its minimun distance yet.

This has been stated many times in the past

On 2012-09-23 13:20, Pantheon wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-09-23 13:14, |xTc|-ExisT *XO* wrote: Quote: On 2012-09-23 02:00, Fatal Brutality [CE] *COM* wrote: nah thats not exacly what I refering to. Both Harpex and shrouds arm well within minimum arming distance. All you gotta really do is click a point behind the ship your trying to hit and boom missiles hit within minimum range, often without time for PD to counter any missiles. Actually, missles dont arm till they've travelled their minimun firing distance. So you cant point jump someone with a MD and click and fire behind them, like you said. It may hit them, but itll do no damage because it hasnt reached its minimun distance yet. This has been stated many times in the past

Precisely.

float fTime = fMaxLife - fLife;
if ( fTime < armTime() )
return true; // projectile was not armed yet, it inflicts no damage...

On 2012-09-23 17:04, Pantheon wrote:
I don't think you understand what's going on .

armTime is the minimum range. If they're manually targetting behind you, then the weapon goes "Okay, that's outside of minimum and within maximum range.". If they fire, and the projectile hits you and the life of the projectile is lower than the armTime, then the projectile will do zero damage to you.

Minimum range is armTime * projectileVelocity.

Maximum range is ( projectileVelocity * projectileLife ) * rangeModifier.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-09-23 17:08 ]

On 2012-09-23 17:33, Whiterin wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-09-23 17:04, Pantheon wrote: I don't think you understand what's going on . armTime is the minimum range. If they're manually targetting behind you, then the weapon goes "Okay, that's outside of minimum and within maximum range.". If they fire, and the projectile hits you and the life of the projectile is lower than the armTime, then the projectile will do zero damage to you. Minimum range is armTime * projectileVelocity. Maximum range is ( projectileVelocity * projectileLife ) * rangeModifier. [ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-09-23 17:08 ]

Uhh... then how are people able to shoot and hit, and damage with shroud missles at 200 gu?

On 2012-09-23 17:04, Pantheon wrote:
I don't think you understand what's going on .

armTime is the minimum range. If they're manually targetting behind you, then the weapon goes "Okay, that's outside of minimum and within maximum range.". If they fire, and the projectile hits you and the life of the projectile is lower than the armTime, then the projectile will do zero damage to you.

Minimum range is armTime * projectileVelocity.

Maximum range is ( projectileVelocity * projectileLife ) * rangeModifier.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2012-09-23 17:08 ]