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Modern Darkspace |
-DBS
Marshal
Joined: January 04, 2011
Posts: 204
From: St. Petersburg, FL
|  Posted: 2012-11-13 13:03
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On 2012-11-12 19:49, Fatal Incinarator |SoT| wrote:
Honestly Two Face, I think your problem is not with the actual shield structure itself, but with the idea that an engineer can just sit there and rebuild the shield, which will be back at 100% each time.
I completely agree with you.
Can we have the default health of planetary shields be set to zero?
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I believe I have watched you, bounce around between two planets (fights) and rep both shields while we tried to bomb...
-Good Fix-
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-11-13 16:16
I will counter this argument with this.
If it's only one person on, then yes, it could be unbalanced. However, consider this... Armor, not shields, but armor on ships becomes much more resiliant while being repairs. Both UGTO and Luth have two sets of armor, while ICC have one. The argument can be made that ICC shields charge faster yet, but shields vs armor is balanced. I think in the grand scheme of things, in a fleet vs fleet engagement with over all defense, the lack of having two sets armor being repairs to go through before an orbiting ship is destroyed or has to run is made up for by the shields.
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2012-11-13 16:34
Imo each faction should have the same planet structures and no advantage.
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 In space , no one can hear you scream!
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-11-13 16:51
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On 2012-11-13 16:16, Whiterin wrote:
I will counter this argument with this.
If it's only one person on, then yes, it could be unbalanced. However, consider this... Armor, not shields, but armor on ships becomes much more resiliant while being repairs. Both UGTO and Luth have two sets of armor, while ICC have one. The argument can be made that ICC shields charge faster yet, but shields vs armor is balanced. I think in the grand scheme of things, in a fleet vs fleet engagement with over all defense, the lack of having two sets armor being repairs to go through before an orbiting ship is destroyed or has to run is made up for by the shields.
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Talking about planetary shields :/
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2012-11-13 18:34
I thought we were discussing lobby shields
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2012-11-13 18:47
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On 2012-11-13 16:34, Flash. wrote:
Imo each faction should have the same planet structures and no advantage.
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The problem with that is that it makes all the Factions homogenous, which is boring. I'd rather all the faction have something that makes their planets special.
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2012-11-13 19:09
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On 2012-11-12 22:36, Charz wrote:
They are so right when they say history repeats itself.
1. This idea has been batted around for a long time. The current setup is the best I've seen.
2. Planet capping is the quickest I have ever seen. Wow, I wish all the players of long past were back in the MV to see it now!
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Having quick planet caps is not fun or interesting as there is no challenge in it. The players of long past perfered the strategy and tactics involved with bombing and capping when it was a challenge and took a certain degree of skill to do. That system regardless of its faults created a challenge that was just as difficult and interesting as the combat was and in itself was its own game that presented its own challenges.
It may seem like it but im not bashing the current system. However I am pretty sure im not the only one who actually enjoyed the old system of bombing and capping planets. On the factions all 3 had their own challenges ICC being the most challenging of the three to bomb and cap. It was a part of who they were their planets were incredibly defensive and very difficult to crack.They litterally had death stars that took either a long time to bomb and cap or took alot of resources and ships to attack.This also made them easier to defend. I remember spending hours just trying to crack the defences on an icc planet with a colony or spending hours with a couple clavates and ultimate worksers for and effective ecm bombing.Both of which took time,strategy and planning to pull off successfully especially doing it while under attack. Cloud bombing and ecm bombing may have had its own issues but was entertaining to pull off.
well thats just my 2 cents
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Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 184
From: home planet: Exathra
| Posted: 2012-11-13 19:25
shield starting at 0 is a good idea, but what about the shield going to zero when the power grid goes down........that'll work too methinks
*BOOM*
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-11-13 20:16
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 19:09, Necrotic wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-11-12 22:36, Charz wrote:
They are so right when they say history repeats itself.
1. This idea has been batted around for a long time. The current setup is the best I've seen.
2. Planet capping is the quickest I have ever seen. Wow, I wish all the players of long past were back in the MV to see it now!
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Having quick planet caps is not fun or interesting as there is no challenge in it. The players of long past perfered the strategy and tactics involved with bombing and capping when it was a challenge and took a certain degree of skill to do. That system regardless of its faults created a challenge that was just as difficult and interesting as the combat was and in itself was its own game that presented its own challenges.
It may seem like it but im not bashing the current system. However I am pretty sure im not the only one who actually enjoyed the old system of bombing and capping planets. On the factions all 3 had their own challenges ICC being the most challenging of the three to bomb and cap. It was a part of who they were their planets were incredibly defensive and very difficult to crack.They litterally had death stars that took either a long time to bomb and cap or took alot of resources and ships to attack.This also made them easier to defend. I remember spending hours just trying to crack the defences on an icc planet with a colony or spending hours with a couple clavates and ultimate worksers for and effective ecm bombing.Both of which took time,strategy and planning to pull off successfully especially doing it while under attack. Cloud bombing and ecm bombing may have had its own issues but was entertaining to pull off.
well thats just my 2 cents
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All well and good but once again this isn't the old darkspace we all reminisce about!
ICC have had a 5% HP boost to ship shields followed by an additional 15% within the last couple patches which has proved an overly massive help to them, ecm cloud bombing isnt what it used to be so thats that out the window, too cut it short, ICC is now the strongest faction from a ship base, but still has all its defensive factors from years ago, somethings gotta give!
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-11-13 21:04
Seriously? Icc is NOT the most powerful faction.
Ask any regular kluth player and they'll tell you ugto is the strongest.
It's because of game balance which is currently
Icc beats ugto, ugto beats kluth, kluth beats icc
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-11-13 22:33
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On 2012-11-13 21:04, |xTc| ExisTence *XO* wrote:
Seriously? Icc is NOT the most powerful faction.
Ask any regular kluth player and they'll tell you ugto is the strongest.
It's because of game balance which is currently
Icc beats ugto, ugto beats kluth, kluth beats icc
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Over the years ive played all 3 factions ALOT, dont use that card on me lol, stick to the topic.
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PokeYourWaffle
Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 112
| Posted: 2012-11-13 23:28
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 20:16, Two Face wrote:
All well and good but once again this isn't the old darkspace we all reminisce about!
ICC have had a 5% HP boost to ship shields followed by an additional 15% within the last couple patches which has proved an overly massive help to them, ecm cloud bombing isnt what it used to be so thats that out the window, too cut it short, ICC is now the strongest faction from a ship base, but still has all its defensive factors from years ago, somethings gotta give!
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ICC shields unenhanced are like wet paper, with defense mods they are nearly impossible to crack. Even with my 6 weapon enh. EAD and all proton torps I usually get hulled by the time I get through their dreads shields. A lone ICC dread isn't anything to worry about but in numbers it will usually take more UGTO dreads than ICC dreads to take them down even up close. You can't nerf them because then new dread pilots will be worse off than they are now. It's an awkward problem. Looking at the numbers for ICC weapons though, they do considerably less damage than UGTO's weapons.
I very rarely bomb because I am usually playing support but from what bombing I have done in my opinion shields aren't difficult to deal with if you have decent support to fight off the defending forces from PDing.
By all means, the suggestions made already would be great improvements to stop "abuse" I guess you could call it, of rebuilding shields and/or having them on every planet because they require almost nothing.
Two Face, continuing with the discussion we had tonight, you were asking me to try and bomb a fully built planet with a shield and two luth dreads covering it. You couldn't honestly expect me to pull that off, I don't think anyone could do that successfully. It's not like I can just cloak and pop up where you guys aren't, I would be visible at all times and would have no clue where you guys were. The fact that I said I couldn't do it doesn't prove that shields are unbalanced, even if the planet didnt have a shield I don't think hardly anyone could pull it off unless you had 3 or more bombers. On a bigger planet like haven or grace it wouldn't be a problem because two luth dreads wouldn't be able to cover that whole massive planet. Maybe if I had slowly picked away at it for an hour because I am sure one or two bombs would slip past you both it might be possible, but that would just be a waste of time. What you were trying to get me to do proves nothing about the shield being unbalanced.
and Yes, I know I rarely bomb you don't have to remind me, I know how to bomb just as well as any other person.
Why not build on what we already have suggested? There is multiple ideas thrown in the table, let's see if we can't find a balanced solution from the suggestions we already have?
[ This Message was edited by: Iliana on 2012-11-13 23:36 ]
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Whiterin
Fleet Admiral
Joined: November 15, 2007
Posts: 146
| Posted: 2012-11-14 01:29
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 16:51, Two Face wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 16:16, Whiterin wrote:
I will counter this argument with this.
If it's only one person on, then yes, it could be unbalanced. However, consider this... Armor, not shields, but armor on ships becomes much more resiliant while being repairs. Both UGTO and Luth have two sets of armor, while ICC have one. The argument can be made that ICC shields charge faster yet, but shields vs armor is balanced. I think in the grand scheme of things, in a fleet vs fleet engagement with over all defense, the lack of having two sets armor being repairs to go through before an orbiting ship is destroyed or has to run is made up for by the shields.
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Talking about planetary shields :/
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You missed my point. I was talking about things as a whole, when a fleet is defending a planet against another fleet.
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*Flash*
Chief Marshal
Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 291
From: Semi retired after 1.67 !
| Posted: 2012-11-14 02:41
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 18:47, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 16:34, Flash. wrote:
Imo each faction should have the same planet structures and no advantage.
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The problem with that is that it makes all the Factions homogenous, which is boring. I'd rather all the faction have something that makes their planets special.
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yes would be interesting..
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-11-14 05:02
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 18:47, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-11-13 16:34, Flash. wrote:
Imo each faction should have the same planet structures and no advantage.
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The problem with that is that it makes all the Factions homogenous, which is boring. I'd rather all the faction have something that makes their planets special.
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Correct me if my understanding of how the planetary shield works is wrong. But right now, the structure simply reduces or eliminates the damage caused by bombs to any other structures on the planet. right? There is no actual shield health per se, like on the ICC ships. If the structure is there, and is functioining (not paused, or severely damaged) the shield is up and automatically protects the planet fully.
So perhaps having an actual working shield (ala the ICC ships) might be an idea. Shields start off at 0%, and charge up. Everytime the planet is hit, the shield percentage will drop according to the damage absorbed, and etc etc etc.
Though if the first paragraph were true, then this might increase calculations, and thus CPU load and also the data sent back and forth between server and client.
Perhaps removing planetary shields entirely might be easier. 
*cue IQQ*
But I would rather raise the tech requirements of the shields, so building one actually requires more supporting infrastructure. This in turn has the effect of ensuring that not all planets can have a shield. And those that do will have to sacrifice more structure space for research buildings to support the shield.
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