On 2013-04-27 18:24, Pantheon wrote:

Quote: On 2013-04-27 06:38, Novacat wrote: Entering the ships ingame is just simple database work, it just requires that you know how to copy lines without making typos, the hardest part is finding the right XYZ coordinates for all the devices and thats mostly trial and error unless you guys have some special program for it.

I'm surprised you know so much about how we enter stuff into the game.

Seeing as it has nothing to do with a database.

Or how to copy lines without typos.

If it was a simple fact of just the tier system that was holding back 1.7, it would have been done a while ago. There's a lot more to 1.7 behind the scenes than meets the eye; like significant core changes to how GCQS works (the backend to our chat system).

If making a game in your mind is so simple, I'd love to see you make a game like DarkSpace in but a few months - seeing as it's as simple as copying a few lines from a database .

On 2013-04-27 23:08, Fluttershy wrote:
Could you put up a tutorial and allow us to help?

On 2013-04-27 06:38, Novacat wrote:
Entering the ships ingame is just simple database work, it just requires that you know how to copy lines without making typos, the hardest part is finding the right XYZ coordinates for all the devices and thats mostly trial and error unless you guys have some special program for it.

On 2013-04-27 23:06, Jim Starluck wrote:
Each faction has 5 Scouts, 13 Frigates, 5 Transports, 3 Engineers, 13 Destroyers, 3 Supplies, 13 Cruisers, 13 Dreadnoughts and 3 Stations.

On 2013-04-27 18:24, Pantheon wrote:
If making a game in your mind is so simple, I'd love to see you make a game like DarkSpace in but a few months - seeing as it's as simple as copying a few lines from a database .

On 2013-04-27 23:06, Jim Starluck wrote:

To elaborate on this, each ship class in the game has a Scene file, which defines what model the ship uses, what gadgets it has, what arcs those gadgets have (Fore, Port, Starboard, Aft, or some combination of them), where the gadget is positioned on the model, and lastly the exhaust trails.

For each individual gadget, we have to select two different files to define what type of gadget it is and make sure it will function correctly. Then we have to position it somewhere on the model that looks appropriate. We also have to tell it which arcs it does or does not use and which direction it launches in (for missiles, bombs and fighters).

We have to do this for each gadget one by one, and most ships have at least 15-20 of them. We're re-using gadgets form the existing layouts where we can, which saves some time, but in many cases we have to add entirely new ones. It can take anywhere from 20-60 minutes to go through this for each ship, depending on how many gadgets it has, how many of them are already placed, and whether or not the entire ship has to be created from scratch rather than modifying an existing layout.

On 2013-04-28 00:09, Pantheon wrote:
No. Access is extremely limited as it requires both the developer flag to run the Resoucer, and access to our SVN repo which houses everything to load the data into the Resourcer.

On 2013-04-28 01:22, Kenny_Naboo wrote:

You assume too much.
From game balance to how the ships layouts are created.

On 2013-04-28 08:21, Novacat wrote:

Quote: On 2013-04-27 18:24, Pantheon wrote: If making a game in your mind is so simple, I'd love to see you make a game like DarkSpace in but a few months - seeing as it's as simple as copying a few lines from a database .

I never said anything about the rest of the 1.7 patch, just the Tier system, and considering implimenting the tier system ingame is just adding a bunch of new shiptypes (most of the actual work is designing it), it really is just entering lines in a database.

I even did it myself back when it was possible for people to host their own private servers and the old map editor could actually edit ships. It was very easy and the hardest part was finding the right XYZ coordinates for the components, which required a lot of trial and error.

Quote: On 2013-04-27 23:06, Jim Starluck wrote: To elaborate on this, each ship class in the game has a Scene file, which defines what model the ship uses, what gadgets it has, what arcs those gadgets have (Fore, Port, Starboard, Aft, or some combination of them), where the gadget is positioned on the model, and lastly the exhaust trails. For each individual gadget, we have to select two different files to define what type of gadget it is and make sure it will function correctly. Then we have to position it somewhere on the model that looks appropriate. We also have to tell it which arcs it does or does not use and which direction it launches in (for missiles, bombs and fighters). We have to do this for each gadget one by one, and most ships have at least 15-20 of them. We're re-using gadgets form the existing layouts where we can, which saves some time, but in many cases we have to add entirely new ones. It can take anywhere from 20-60 minutes to go through this for each ship, depending on how many gadgets it has, how many of them are already placed, and whether or not the entire ship has to be created from scratch rather than modifying an existing layout.

This is exactly how I imagined it, and it really is just glorified database entry. Your biggest concern is making typos which tends to make very bad things happen, and I know some people who are notoriously bad at this (I have to check their work and clean out the typos on a regular basis) and some people are really good at this.

However, this is not actual programming, nowhere near actual programming. This is something that can be mostly crowdsourced and save the developers a lot of time.

Quote: On 2013-04-28 00:09, Pantheon wrote: No. Access is extremely limited as it requires both the developer flag to run the Resoucer, and access to our SVN repo which houses everything to load the data into the Resourcer.

I am currently working mainly with experiance with other games, but I am guessing the files for each individual ship is plaintext, each individual ship likely has either its own file, or they are all defined in one file which is highly unlikely for Darkspace but some games do it (such as Starpoint Gemini, a game very similar to Darkspace).

If memory serves me correctly, a ship will have individual lines defining the model (with texture), trails (and XYZ coords for them), Damage points (which show up as the orange sparks and such when a ship is damaged), shiptype, and all the individual gadgets and their arcs, orientation, and XYZ location.

The model, trails, and damage points are mostly irrellevant, they are each tailored to individual models and generally can be copy-pasted so long as you do not use a new model.

The gadgets are where the most pain comes in. Each ship has a different set of gadgets, and you have to define each individual one. This is where it becomes like database entry, your basically entering the gadgets into the list and making sure you do not make any typos.

The typo part is variable from person to person, some people cannot be trusted to touch a file without making at least one typo, while others are extremely meticulous.

Of course, the hardest part is Orientation and Coordinates. This requires a lot of testing (loading internal build, testing, making changes, than loading it again, etc.) in order to get just right. Given, the hardest part also cannot be outsourced, but surely you can save some time by giving people a list of ships, some basic formatting for putting in gadgets, and the community could likely do most of the easy, tedious work for you, just leaving the orientation/coordinates work to do. Even if it only cuts 5-10 minutes per ship, that would enormously help the team, no?

Quote: On 2013-04-28 01:22, Kenny_Naboo wrote: You assume too much. From game balance to how the ships layouts are created.

Hm? Why are you so offended by the mere suggestion that some parts of Darkspace's development is not exactly rocket science?

On 2013-04-28 08:43, Pantheon wrote:
LUA scripting isn't the same as database entry. The game files are not in plain text, but encrypted hex files, and are serialised, so you can't just copy and paste.

On 2013-04-28 09:54, Novacat wrote:

Quote: On 2013-04-28 08:43, Pantheon wrote: LUA scripting isn't the same as database entry. The game files are not in plain text, but encrypted hex files, and are serialised, so you can't just copy and paste.

Also, the game files are in plaintext before you assemble/encrypt them, in which they become encrypted hex files. This is both to make the code run faster/better, and to stop curious people from snooping in on the inner workings of the game.

On 2013-04-28 09:54, Novacat wrote:

Quote: On 2013-04-28 08:43, Pantheon wrote: LUA scripting isn't the same as database entry. The game files are not in plain text, but encrypted hex files, and are serialised, so you can't just copy and paste.

Ship definition files might be in LUA Format/script, but its hardly actual LUA scripting. Your not using triggers, your basically just defining a particular object.

Also, the game files are in plaintext before you assemble/encrypt them, in which they become encrypted hex files. This is both to make the code run faster/better, and to stop curious people from snooping in on the inner workings of the game.

There is no need to make Darkspace's development seem like voodoo magic.

On 2013-04-28 08:43, Pantheon wrote:
SNIP

On 2013-04-28 08:21, Novacat wrote:

Hm? Why are you so offended by the mere suggestion that some parts of Darkspace's development is not exactly rocket science?

On 2013-04-29 11:29, Talien wrote:
So Jim, what ever happened to that Fast Transport idea you had with less armor and an extra engine? Seems like the perfect time to bring it in. Could even do less cargo space instead of less armor in exchange for that extra engine, which would honestly make more sense.