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ECM / ECCM |
Fatal Perihelion
Chief Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: April 15, 2010
Posts: 308
|  Posted: 2013-02-28 14:55
I wonder what you think of the "new" ecm and eccm warfare.
From what i know the developers main goal is to encourage teamplay, for example: humans fight vs kluth so one should take out an e-war ship to raise signatures and make cloaking harder, or even use targeted eccm to hunt one Kluth down.
Same with ecm, what would you need mass ecm or targeted ecm for? I guess to hide missiles, fighters or bombs.
But what happens in the game? No one ever talks about these specialized eccm or ecm types.
Whats the reason behind this? Is it just the lack of players not allowing a more specialiced compositon of a fleet including an e-war ship.
Or is it just that people are too stupid to use them?
Or is it just that you rather have another station or dread at your side then an e-war ship, because firepower above all ?
I would like to see your opinions and now let me get to the point i am aiming at:
I want the ole ECCM back, the sonar ping. With some experienced pilots it was a fun and a fair weapon vs Kluth, now all you need to do is just let eccm on and stack it, only turn it off when your out of energy.
Just like with the end of defense-mode the game apears to be more simple
Do you think the old "ping" eccm was an unwanted nerf to Kluth?
Or do you think instead it was totaly useless except for some hardcore players?
I would realy like to know because me and some other players agree that the submarine sonar-like ping vs kluth was one of the best parts in this game.
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YIIMM
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 851
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
| Posted: 2013-02-28 16:52
I think it's very much a mixed bag.
I do very often jump into support ships because I like the idea of helping my team other than by adding a few more guns and now with grouping there is a prestige reward for doing so.
The flipside of this is that it can be hard to quantify just how much your support role is helping. I can't be certain that more of an edge wouldn't be given by simply grabbing another combat ship. If the fleets that fought each other were 2-3+ times the size they are now, maybe one or two support roles would really create a visible difference.
I think the reason people don't talk about the new EW types is because of their current limited application. ECM, for the human factions at least, is important for covert bombing but not a great deal else, especially when a massed fleet with a bomber is almost always more effective. ECCM is of paramount importance in fighting K'luth though.
Of the ECCM types available, even when flying a dedicated EW ship, I'll stick to the default one. The targeted one would become useless and need to be reapplied every time a target cloaked/dropped below 0.0 sig; with the long range one I don't feel that an increased range compensates enough for a drop in strength.
ECCM ping is a good example of a bug that got turned into a moderately useful feature and I would be happy to see it back provided there were some limitations.
It'd need those limitations because I know it wouldn't be fun at all to have the cloak negated so easily because it's very much part of their armour as well as a stealth device. You only need to look back at how empty K'luth was in 1.483 where every ship could mount a beacon and it nullified the cloak completely.
So if ping were to be reintroduced I'd either increase the cooldowns and/or restrict pinging to corvettes, which for a mostly beam faction like K'luth are easily killed with a little effort.
[ This Message was edited by: YIIMM on 2013-02-28 16:53 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-02-28 21:43
People don't use ECM because it got beat to death with the nerf bat. ECCM, yeah pretty much people would rather have a combat ship because the effect of ECCM on luth is a lot less apparent than blasting a non cloaked luth with weapons. And that's all ECCM is good for right now, making luth use more energy when cloaked, it's no longer a counter to ECM because ECM is currently useless.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2013-03-01 01:49
You can still use ECCM to ping sometimes. It's not full proof, but it works the majority of the time for me. Only use ECCM/ECM currently to PD shrouds, Covert bomb, and hunt luth.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-03-01 13:25
I don't know the usefulness of narrowband or focused ECM/ECCM. Original ECM, ECCM is good enough.
It will be clearer if there are 2 versions of ECM, ECCM:
1) long range, WEAK negative/positive signature and consumes more energy, fast cooldown.
2) short range, STRONG negative/positive signature and consumes less energy, long cooldown.
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Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 184
From: home planet: Exathra
| Posted: 2013-03-01 20:05
+1, i would like the old 'ping' restored, i for one would fly an EW scout more often, besides using the old 'ping' did make it more fun vs 'luth............
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2013-03-01 20:23
I think a big issue with EWAR designed ships right now is that none of them actually have enough EWAR on them to make up for your fleets loss of firepower should you choose to fly one, so no one flies them.
I would like to take this moment to say that in the new layouts there is a T1 EWAR Frigate with 8 EWAR modules. So hopefully that helps.
What I'd also like to see is a way to give players prestige for having EWAR active in combat. By this I mean that players should get a trickle of prestige for having allies in ECM range, and enemies in ECCM range. To prevent abuse(People just leaving themselves in ewar range to farm pres) this should be tied into the In/Out of Combat system, so you'd only get this EWAR pres when In Combat and actually helping in battle.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2013-03-01 22:23
Quote:
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On 2013-03-01 20:23, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
What I'd also like to see is a way to give players prestige for having EWAR active in combat. By this I mean that players should get a trickle of prestige for having allies in ECM range, and enemies in ECCM range. To prevent abuse(People just leaving themselves in ewar range to farm pres) this should be tied into the In/Out of Combat system, so you'd only get this EWAR pres when In Combat and actually helping in battle.
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I can see this happening if no other ship class has any ability for ECM/ECCM. If this were the case, then grouping with a player who took this ship, while others were in combat, command. etc. then I could see there being more people willing to play this role.
I'm not up todate on the whats comming down the road with the new lineup. So don't beat me up, bc im just throwing this out as my 2 cents.
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2013-03-01 22:41
Quote:
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On 2013-03-01 22:23, CharAznable wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-03-01 20:23, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
What I'd also like to see is a way to give players prestige for having EWAR active in combat. By this I mean that players should get a trickle of prestige for having allies in ECM range, and enemies in ECCM range. To prevent abuse(People just leaving themselves in ewar range to farm pres) this should be tied into the In/Out of Combat system, so you'd only get this EWAR pres when In Combat and actually helping in battle.
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I can see this happening if no other ship class has any ability for ECM/ECCM. If this were the case, then grouping with a player who took this ship, while others were in combat, command. etc. then I could see there being more people willing to play this role.
I'm not up todate on the whats comming down the road with the new lineup. So don't beat me up, bc im just throwing this out as my 2 cents.
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Non-EWAR ships will have limited EWAR capabilities, but not none. Scouts and Frigs automatically get 2, Cruisers and Dreads get one. The difference though is that specialized EWAR ships will have a lot more EWAR obviously and these ships would gain a lot more prestige from their EWAR running.
Say an ECCM gives 1 pres a second an enemy is in range, a standard Non-EWAR cruiser would get 1 pres a second, while an EWAR cruiser with, say, 8 ECCM modules would get 8 pres per second. So other ships will have EWAR, but only the specailized EWAR role ships would have enough of them to actually make a meaningful amount of prestige.
So with this new prestige gain from EWAR, plus grouping with the rest of the fleet it's supporting.... Tada! EWAR based ships are suddenly viable prestige gaining ships.
It would get even better with EWAR/combat mixed role ships who would get prestige from their EWAR support and combat. Radically improved Border Cruiser anyone?
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-03-02 02:08
Quote:
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On 2013-03-01 20:23, Walrus of Apathy wrote:
I would like to take this moment to say that in the new layouts there is a T1 EWAR Frigate with 8 EWAR modules. So hopefully that helps.
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I sure hope they also get a bunch of aux reactors otherwise they'll run out of power very quickly. That or lower the power requirements for EW gadgets, either way they'll need to be able to power them while moving.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2013-03-02 10:15
why people dont use EW?
why people fly mostly combat?
why is everybody driving their beloved dreads?
BECASUE we, players, have nothing better to do than be a wise smartasses about everything, new player (or old) read what we have to say. so if we say "ugto is insta pop faction" or "oh ew suck" or "oh dreads are best ships" or "small ships are too weak" and so on... people who read that kind of statment and arent so often in the game to conbfirm that for themselfs, will take these statemenst as valid and will act according to them. there fore, not use ew, fly dreads, quit ugto...and so on.
another thing why all that is as it is... its because SOME people forget this is a GAME and purpose of the game is to have FUN. (you know fun, what activity that gives you excitment, thrill, adrenaline, makes you happy and such...? look up a dictionary)
steamrolling the enemy with heavyest ships possible, outgunning and outnumbering them has little fun. well... it will discourage the opposing team and they will quit, so there you go have fun huging enemy planets and turning around like a ballet dancers with your dread. driven by EGOs desire to dominate, to be above all others. that, my friends, is the source of problems that are torturing darkspace.
limit 3 dreads per faction.
i know its a bit off topic, but limiting some things may force players to go for support/ew/other classes of ships.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-03-02 15:23
More likely it'd make people ragequit because they can't use whatever they want whenever they want to. Class limits makes sense, but we don't have the player numbers to support it when it would drive some of them away.
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Adapt or die.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2013-03-02 15:40
driving away angry teenage CoD players that rage how OP and what BS is everything when they are denied to PWN everything....im fine with that.
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Sparkx
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 11, 2012
Posts: 18
From: St. Pete, FL
| Posted: 2013-03-02 15:50
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On 2013-03-02 15:40, Ravendark wrote:
driving away angry teenage CoD players that rage how OP and what BS is everything when they are denied to PWN everything....im fine with that.
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So, you want the RSM fleet to quit?
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2013-03-02 16:05
i didnt said that 
but if you're pointing out that rsm members are as described, angry teenage mutant cob players, yes i dont mind those to quit. i've seen some of rsm being quite cool actually. but then are some who wreck the reputation of rsm to the point people leave the faction they are on, just to be on the opposite side. but thats totally offtopic now...
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