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ECM / ECCM |
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
|  Posted: 2013-03-05 17:07
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On 2013-03-05 11:29, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Well, the dev team has discussed putting a min range for jumps to discourage this kinda point jumping. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to implement and will probably come in a not too distant future along with the balance changes.
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this
this might help alot of ICC if not all faction trying to keep range
combat dreads, missile dreads, carriers ETC
best idea ever
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2013-03-05 17:07 ]
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19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2013-03-05 18:40
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On 2013-03-05 11:29, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Well, the dev team has discussed putting a min range for jumps to discourage this kinda point jumping. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to implement and will probably come in a not too distant future along with the balance changes.
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would ruin alot the fun of combat, besides point jumping right takes skill, most players don't know how to do it right anyway
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2013-03-05 20:33
i beg to differ, its actually easy to point jump any long ranged ships and destroy them with assault ships. wich everyone use latly. having a limit on the jump would make Combat ships a lot more effective in their roles, and it would take actual skills and strategy to approach an enemy.
i mean how does a support/command ship can stay beind the line, if all the ships jumps at it directly? Now they woudl need to think trough and find a way to go trough the line first, without jumping trough it and ignoring it
[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2013-03-05 20:35 ]
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19:33:51 [ZION]GothThug {C?}: "Zero..you are DS's hero"
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-03-06 00:00
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On 2013-03-05 18:40, Borgie wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-03-05 11:29, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Well, the dev team has discussed putting a min range for jumps to discourage this kinda point jumping. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to implement and will probably come in a not too distant future along with the balance changes.
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would ruin alot the fun of combat, besides point jumping right takes skill, most players don't know how to do it right anyway
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This will probably affect those ICC ships who want to make short jumps out to get into the "optimum" range of their long-range guns. When they jump, they'll also end up jumping outside of their gun range. So all they can do is run.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-03-06 00:01 ]
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Sparkx
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 11, 2012
Posts: 18
From: St. Pete, FL
| Posted: 2013-03-06 00:50
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On 2013-03-05 14:03, Doran wrote:
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On 2013-03-05 12:19, Chopped Liver wrote:
Make the chosen destination the center point of a circle, and the ship exits hyperjump somewhere inside the circle.
You want a USE for EWAR? Make it affect size of the circle.
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this is an interesting idea. not saying its a good one, or a bad one, or even if its remotely feasible. but its an interesting idea
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Sounds like an awesome idea to me.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2013-03-06 01:59
It would be a gamble for either side depending on the situation and it would make it more of a crapshoot when going against a longer range ship and vise versa. If you get lucky and manage to jump close to the enemy ship, they could be in serious trouble, but if they jump out of effective combat range of their repective ship they get pounded. Seems reasonable to me. 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-03-06 04:48
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On 2013-03-05 14:03, Doran wrote:
this is an interesting idea. not saying its a good one, or a bad one, or even if its remotely feasible. but its an interesting idea
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Could be done if FTL were true hyperspace jumps where you winked out and winked in at the destination area, and not a straight line FTL Tachyon drives which is what we have right now.
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Ravendark
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 01, 2010
Posts: 443
| Posted: 2013-03-06 08:48
weapons disabled for 1-5 secs after 'landing' a jump.
+
idea mentioned before, that EW would effect accuricy (is that spelled right? no, right?) of jump
= little ships saved from instakill. EW extends its defensive usefullness. little side effect would be common planet crashes  (if there's hidden luth with ecm sitting at your destionation planet fun fun fun)
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-03-06 16:07
EW has uses, it's just not good at any of them right now save stealth bombing with Frigates. Which, ironically, was supposedly the reason ECM was nerfed to begin with, only it had the exact opposite effect and ruined ECM's usefulness for anything BUT stealth bombing with Frigates. We really don't need EW affecting things like jump accuracy to combat point jumping. And speaking of point jumping.....
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On 2013-03-06 08:48, Ravendark wrote:
weapons disabled for 1-5 secs after 'landing' a jump.
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That has been brought up before and still seems to be the best "solution" to point jumping. Most people can't do it for crap anyway unless they're jumping a stationary target and are stationary themselves, so it doesn't make much sense to change the whole jump mechanic just for that when disabling weapons for a few seconds after jumping would do the job better. If disabling weapons after a jump would be too much work, would it be possible to have jumping drain the power from all weapon gadgets so they'd have to recharge after a jump?
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2013-03-09 11:53
That was kinda hat I meat before. EW, when cloaking was an actual part of the system, worked very well, very logical, and didnt really havemany issues. ECCM ECM, beacons and even scanners all had a real function then, and how many you could bring in to stack had a real effect on battles. It is space. There isnt much any side can do to change the battlefield in the way of use of terrain. An effective EW system added that extra tactic and depth to the game that just hasn't been reached since the cloak change.
I still think that planetary sensor bases should have a level to them. What I mean is, you only build one structure, a Planetary Scensor System Tier I, and it gives a specific value. Then you can upgrade that structure to give a higher signature. This allows for more defenses or other structures, while still effectively providing planetary ECCM cover. There arent enough people to cover every plane and system effectively, and you cant build enough platforms for them to be where they are all needed. This could allow tweaks to the different levels to allow for either increased AOE or higher signature.
Beacons should only be readable by a ship with an active scanner. Scanners should only be on EW-designed ships. One such ship can beacon and track the target. Make the beacons and scanners have a specific range, and it would add a little more tactical depth. eacon shouldnt effect the cloak at all, because the cloak really isnt a, EW-based design anymore. Instead, players should be able to see the beacon, and fire at the moving beacon, without necessarily seeing the ship or having it decloak. The beacon should have hitpoints, so it will eventually die, but then the enemy ship can allways throw another one on before it gets roasted. I wouldnt see a reason to limit them either, as in this case it isnt throwing out a signature ring as much as just showing up as a shootable target.
ECM and ECCM are still horrible, and frankly, because of the fact that it is easier to nerf than police, I don't see them becoming anything close to tactically effective under the current or any other new EW system.
Maybe some folks dont understand wha used to happen with the old system;
Kluth would stack ecm so that they could keep their negative signature. The cloak was like a ECM that only effected your ship and only brought it to zero. You had to have ecm to go negative. f youhad no ecm and the enemy had just 1 eccm, you were exposed. So we would stack ecm and go into combat. However, cloak was hard core drainage, so we would usually have to drop cloak for the most part within a few seconds of the engagement. Well, with Kluth stacking ecm, smaller enemy ships would also go negative, which in some ways helped even things out with smaller ships. I have seen battles where both sides actually stacked ecm, and fought in a negative signature. It sure as hell was no cake-walk for Kluth at that point, because even EADs had to be manually targeted! Mines in that environment become ROFLbombs, because the scanner didnt read them then if I remember right. Overall it was a decent system.
I dunno. Now, it seems like a system of bandaids and duct tape. Even with the new types, they still are about as usefull as a condom with holes. I wish it werent so, as this was one of the things that endeared me to the game originally......
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2013-03-09 12:55
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On 2013-03-09 11:53, Azreal wrote:
Beacons should only be readable by a ship with an active scanner. Scanners should only be on EW-designed ships. One such ship can beacon and track the target. Make the beacons and scanners have a specific range, and it would add a little more tactical depth. eacon shouldnt effect the cloak at all, because the cloak really isnt a, EW-based design anymore. Instead, players should be able to see the beacon, and fire at the moving beacon, without necessarily seeing the ship or having it decloak. The beacon should have hitpoints, so it will eventually die, but then the enemy ship can allways throw another one on before it gets roasted. I wouldnt see a reason to limit them either, as in this case it isnt throwing out a signature ring as much as just showing up as a shootable target.
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+1 Scanners atm are very useless. this could give a purpose to the scanner and better enhanced the role of ewar ship
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