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new mines |
PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
|  Posted: 2013-05-12 13:04
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 07:59, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
How many things do we want to make AoE, or operated by statistics?
First Planetary defence, then Repair fields.
Do we want to dumb down mines too?
It used to be a weapon that not many knew how, or were willing or patient enough to use. It required more than a modicum of skill.
Ditto repping and planetary defs. They used to be hard to do or defeat.
What's next? Make combat roll based?
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Roll based?
How is having a mine launcher that deploys a "mine cloud" anything that removes the skill or tactical forethought?
Sitting on a gate exit and dropping all your mines at once is not skill, it's patience, and a bit of planning, and a tiny bit of communication, and it's the reason why mines aren't more generally useful, because they would OHK everything going through.
It's a cheap tactic, nobody wants to go through a gate and find half their hull missing.
Mine clouds on the other hand could slow an enemy advance from a particular direction, and could be tweaked in size and damage to be more useful all around, and less useful as a gate camping weapon.
[ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-12 13:05 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-12 19:14
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 13:04, PsyCrow wrote:
Roll based?
How is having a mine launcher that deploys a "mine cloud" anything that removes the skill or tactical forethought?
Sitting on a gate exit and dropping all your mines at once is not skill, it's patience, and a bit of planning, and a tiny bit of communication, and it's the reason why mines aren't more generally useful, because they would OHK everything going through.
It's a cheap tactic, nobody wants to go through a gate and find half their hull missing.
Mine clouds on the other hand could slow an enemy advance from a particular direction, and could be tweaked in size and damage to be more useful all around, and less useful as a gate camping weapon.
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Gate mining was only one of the tactics used back then.
Dropping mines in the path of a pursuer from head on, side on, and even on an overtake. Dropping them next to a station, and then executing a short jump + manual detonate. Using them to kill the unwary scout. Short jumping away, laying mines, and baiting an enemy to jump after you. Dropping mines amidst a stack of plats and watching them kill the mines and each other.
There were many more tactics that employed mines. Much more than just gate mining. And much more than an AoE implementation can ever do.
Don't get flustered abt this though. As always, this is IMO.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-05-12 19:42 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-12 23:48
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 11:58, GunsOfHonor wrote:
-GET RID OF THE DROP LIMIT!!! This is the biggest reason why mines are terrible. People say they used to be abused... Well yea they're MINES! They're designed to be deadly and planted in vast numbers.
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Getting rid of the drop limit would likely result in the servers being lagged to a near standstill when a dozen people all drop their full load of mines at a gate exit, much like what used to happen with mass fighter and missile spam.
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Adapt or die.
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PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-13 00:37
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 19:14, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Gate mining was only one of the tactics used back then.
Dropping mines in the path of a pursuer from head on, side on, and even on an overtake. Dropping them next to a station, and then executing a short jump + manual detonate. Using them to kill the unwary scout. Short jumping away, laying mines, and baiting an enemy to jump after you. Dropping mines amidst a stack of plats and watching them kill the mines and each other.
There were many more tactics that employed mines. Much more than just gate mining. And much more than an AoE implementation can ever do.
Don't get flustered abt this though. As always, this is IMO.
[ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-13 00:41 ]
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Those are all ways I would like to see mines get utilized, but they simply don't do enough damage for any of those tasks.
I literally only found one situation where mines were useful:
Drop a bunch of mines in laser range of a dread so that friendly harpex missiles get through the PD..... lame, right? Mines being reduced to a PD jamming device...
It really depresses me to see a full salvo of mines do less damage than a salvo of missiles.
It's ironic to me because missiles track, and mines just sit there, yet are the weaker of the 2...
PREVENT gate camping by an inhibitor of some sort, and give mines damage on par with missiles.
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2013-05-13 01:53
Then you have problems with mines being overused and probably exploited. That is why they were nerfed in the first place. 
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-13 01:55
Quote:
On 2013-05-13 00:37, PsyCrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 19:14, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Gate mining was only one of the tactics used back then.
Dropping mines in the path of a pursuer from head on, side on, and even on an overtake. Dropping them next to a station, and then executing a short jump + manual detonate. Using them to kill the unwary scout. Short jumping away, laying mines, and baiting an enemy to jump after you. Dropping mines amidst a stack of plats and watching them kill the mines and each other.
There were many more tactics that employed mines. Much more than just gate mining. And much more than an AoE implementation can ever do.
Don't get flustered abt this though. As always, this is IMO.
[ This Message was edited by: PsyCrow on 2013-05-13 00:41 ]
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Those are all ways I would like to see mines get utilized, but they simply don't do enough damage for any of those tasks.
I literally only found one situation where mines were useful:
Drop a bunch of mines in laser range of a dread so that friendly harpex missiles get through the PD..... lame, right? Mines being reduced to a PD jamming device...
It really depresses me to see a full salvo of mines do less damage than a salvo of missiles.
It's ironic to me because missiles track, and mines just sit there, yet are the weaker of the 2...
PREVENT gate camping by an inhibitor of some sort, and give mines damage on par with missiles.
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Mines used to do a whole crapload of damage back in 1.5. That was in 2010.
A Scarab with 8 Adv Weap Multi could bring a UGTO battlestation armor to 70% with a single salvo. It was a powerful ship, rightfully.
Unfortunately, Uggy players QQed, and the mines were eventually nerfed to what you see today.
_________________
... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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The Stig
1st Rear Admiral
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: August 04, 2011
Posts: 14
From: killface
| Posted: 2013-05-13 06:25
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 19:14, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 13:04, PsyCrow wrote:
Roll based?
How is having a mine launcher that deploys a "mine cloud" anything that removes the skill or tactical forethought?
Sitting on a gate exit and dropping all your mines at once is not skill, it's patience, and a bit of planning, and a tiny bit of communication, and it's the reason why mines aren't more generally useful, because they would OHK everything going through.
It's a cheap tactic, nobody wants to go through a gate and find half their hull missing.
Mine clouds on the other hand could slow an enemy advance from a particular direction, and could be tweaked in size and damage to be more useful all around, and less useful as a gate camping weapon.
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Gate mining was only one of the tactics used back then.
Dropping mines in the path of a pursuer from head on, side on, and even on an overtake. Dropping them next to a station, and then executing a short jump + manual detonate. Using them to kill the unwary scout. Short jumping away, laying mines, and baiting an enemy to jump after you. Dropping mines amidst a stack of plats and watching them kill the mines and each other.
There were many more tactics that employed mines. Much more than just gate mining. And much more than an AoE implementation can ever do.
Don't get flustered abt this though. As always, this is IMO.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-05-12 19:42 ]
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You left out ECM forts, but that was before your time....
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Null Pointer
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: April 10, 2010
Posts: 148
| Posted: 2013-05-13 08:52
I remember placing mines in the path of a jump from, let's say a Station to a Planet. When they jumped they'd hit all of the mines. Causing them major damage. Like Kenny said, this was back in 2010 before mines got hit with a nerf bat.
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PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-14 02:20
Quote:
On 2013-05-13 08:52, Boolean Argument wrote:
I remember placing mines in the path of a jump from, let's say a Station to a Planet. When they jumped they'd hit all of the mines. Causing them major damage. Like Kenny said, this was back in 2010 before mines got hit with a nerf bat.
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An action like that should be rewarded, it takes foresight to pull off something like that.
Mines really need to be buffed to how they were before, HOWEVER, they should just unable to be placed near a jump gate, because in that situation, there is no option but to long-jump.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-14 02:58
Quote:
On 2013-05-14 02:20, PsyCrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-13 08:52, Boolean Argument wrote:
I remember placing mines in the path of a jump from, let's say a Station to a Planet. When they jumped they'd hit all of the mines. Causing them major damage. Like Kenny said, this was back in 2010 before mines got hit with a nerf bat.
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An action like that should be rewarded, it takes foresight to pull off something like that.
Mines really need to be buffed to how they were before, HOWEVER, they should just unable to be placed near a jump gate, because in that situation, there is no option but to long-jump.
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Ahh... but you see. Gate mining isn't just a cheap move. It's also a tactical move designed to deny the enemy use of the gate and force him to execute interstellar jumps instead. Defensive tactic 101.
Of course, back in the day, this was easily defeated by sending an AI through the gate before you. The AI would die horribly, but it served its purpose.
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... in space, no one can hear you scream.....
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-05-14 05:38
now people who have no life and just put mines on gatesjump 5k out then wait for ai to come hit them will have to fight >:| I approve!
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-05-14 10:19
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 23:48, Talien wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-12 11:58, GunsOfHonor wrote:
-GET RID OF THE DROP LIMIT!!!
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Getting rid of the drop limit would likely result in the servers being lagged to a near standstill when a dozen people all drop their full load of mines at a gate exit, much like what used to happen with mass fighter and missile spam.
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This is the flaw of mine mechanic.
Instead of laying a SOLE mine per drop, it lay several mines per drop. What's for?
Quote:
http://www.darkspace.net/wiki/index.php/Mines
Once activated, the EMP Mine launcher primes and releases 8 EMP Mines behind the minelaying vessel.
When activated, the Thermonuclear Mine launcher lets loose 6 TN mines at a .7 second interval.
Once an Anti-Matter Mine launcher is activated, 5 mines are set adrift at a .7 second interval.
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Mine gadget spams, the players don't.
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