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What's with the player MI? |
PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
|  Posted: 2013-05-19 14:03
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 13:50, Taelon*RO* wrote:
Mi are boring? or do you think they are too hard?
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4k range torps that seek and have a 200gu explosion radius, and beams which can destroy a cruiser before it makes a 45 degree turn...
Its done in such a way as to be more annoying than challenging.
They are not rewarding to fight in any way, as anything short of an assault class wont be able to dish out damage faster than they repair it.
They don't drop especially good enhancements or give more prestige than normal, in fact they give less prestige because of having less armor but high damage resistance...
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-05-19 15:46
I dispute the above statements.
Firstly, the MI are supposed to be based on pure power. So of course you are going to take significant damage from them.
Secondly, ganglias and other k'luth missile ships have an especially unique advantage because the eccm of hte MI does not easily detect their missiles, if my observations are correct. In fact I do not believe the MI are equipped with eccm. So yes ships below assault class dreads can fight the MI.
Thirdly, there is a profound difference between fighting AI MI and fighting player controlled MI. These are worlds apart. The player controlled MI can and do use singularity lances on you and will intelligently target people. The AI are just AI who choose their targets based on some form of targetting algorithm, this makes them less of a threat.
Fourthly, if you are attacking a MI Longhead or MI Node in a cruiser then you should expect as a matter of practicality to suffer intense losses to your armor especially if you are k'luth since your armor is much lower than UGTO and you do not have the shielding of ICC.
The MI are not meant to be easily defeated that is why they act as an unpredictable element in the game.
-Sheraton
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-05-19 15:52
I stand corrected!
[ This Message was edited by: Taelon*RO* on 2013-05-19 19:35 ]
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-05-19 16:13
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 15:52, Taelon*RO* wrote:
Where you getting your info from? This torps dont track and i dont think they have 200 gu explosion radius
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it's possible he meant 20 and accidently added on an extra 0 because a 20 gu splash radius would be quite reasonable.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-05-19 17:55
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 15:46, Sheraton *XO* wrote:
Firstly, the MI are supposed to be based on pure power. So of course you are going to take significant damage from them.
Secondly, ganglias and other k'luth missile ships have an especially unique advantage because the eccm of hte MI does not easily detect their missiles, if my observations are correct. In fact I do not believe the MI are equipped with eccm. So yes ships below assault class dreads can fight the MI.
Thirdly, there is a profound difference between fighting AI MI and fighting player controlled MI. These are worlds apart. The player controlled MI can and do use singularity lances on you and will intelligently target people. The AI are just AI who choose their targets based on some form of targetting algorithm, this makes them less of a threat.
Fourthly, if you are attacking a MI Longhead or MI Node in a cruiser then you should expect as a matter of practicality to suffer intense losses to your armor especially if you are k'luth since your armor is much lower than UGTO and you do not have the shielding of ICC.
The MI are not meant to be easily defeated that is why they act as an unpredictable element in the game.
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The above are all good points. Every player must adapt to changing circumstances and each foe/enemy ship generally requires a certain tactic to defeat effectively. This goes for AI MI, player MI as well as when dealing with any ship of any faction. You take into account the faction 'talent' of your foe as well as the class and type of ship and react accordingly.
If in a missile ship of any kind you would be foolish to allow your enemy to close in, to under say 500gu, as you are then defenceless and must jump or attempt to outrun your pursuer before you can get back to a range from where you can retaliate. Conversely should you be in a close combat 'brawler' such as an Assault Cruiser for example or most K'luth vessels then the opposite is true and you would ideally want to strike from close range and would prefer to close in on your target before attacking them where your weapons deal the most damage. Some ships are more vulnerable from the rear and in this case staying on your target's six is the safest way to deal most damage as well as avoid the majority of the return fire - this is especially true in ICC versus K'Luth engagements. UGTO do significant damage and have decent firing arcs on many of their ships. From an ICC perspective this means that I should be a little more wary on closing in and dogfighting in close range many UGTO ships as even from behind they can do significant damage due to their firing arcs. When I'm behind a K'Luth dread in my little cruiser I'm laughin cos i just match speed, stay between 10 - 15gu/s and stay behind it and as long as I sit tight on their six firing away I know I'm gonna come out of this with a possible kill - they can't touch me. In such a situation my greatest worry is that my target will cloak, jump or that while I'm concentrating on my target another K'Luth vessel (or two!) will uncloak on MY six and Alpha me into oblivion. For these reasons I gotta stay sharp and be aware of my surroundings at all times. Jumping out is not 'losing' an engagement, staying alive is a victory in itself. This Darkspace is dangerous and you gotta do what you gotta do. K'Luth cloak to live, ICC and UGTO gotta jump n jump smart.
These basic tactics are therefore similar to those that must be employed against the MI whether player controlled or AI. Of course MI ships have different vulnerabilities but they DO have vulnerabilities. In my experience, as long as I stay close behind a Longhead in my Strike or Assault Cruiser just like with a K'Luth dread I know it's going down. Remember these ships could have been designed with a 360 degree arc of fire for all their weapons but they were not.
Whatever you do avoid the front end of a Longhead like the plague! You do not want to experience a full on Alpha especially as you could simply avoid it by avoiding the front 90 (or is it 45) degree arc. Praetorian cruisers I find are Mad-style maneuverable and by that they seem to have a very good turn rate which makes staying on their six difficult but not impossible. Nodes are stations so act accordingly and expect to take damage if you get within their range. All these factors as well as those outlined above by Sheraton go to show that MI are difficult but are not impossible to defeat. In fact if anything their presence is something that often creates a refreshing triple alliance as players from all factions band together to take out the invading Nexus 14 fleet. Besides so many high ranked players that make up the bulk of Darkspace's player-base need a greater challenge than just bustin normal faction ai or even other players that they have already fought so many times.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2013-05-19 18:37
I think when a player remarks that the MI have a negative effect on the population count, it's valid feedback that should be treated with more care than arguments to rebuff how the MI are overpowered.
The issue isn't whether hte MI are overpowered, it's that not all players appreciate it.
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-05-19 19:07
When a player states that a faction should be completely removed then should we also do that?
MI are a part of them game if you dont like the MI the sorry but nothing can really be done about them being around and a player on them shouldn't have such a influence on the game not liek they are always camping the game waiting for fights...
Or are they....
[ This Message was edited by: Taelon*RO* on 2013-05-19 19:29 ]
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-05-19 20:15
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 19:07, Taelon*RO* wrote:
When a player states that a faction should be completely removed then should we also do that?
MI are a part of them game if you dont like the MI the sorry but nothing can really be done about them being around and a player on them shouldn't have such a influence on the game not liek they are always camping the game waiting for fights...
Or are they....
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There's a big difference between a faction designed for players, and a faction designed for AI with the need to be made very much OP to compensate for the subpar combat performance of said AI. Put a player behind a clearly OP ship and of course people are going to be annoyed about being blown up by them and losing prestige and enh durability, especially if the death ray is being used.
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-05-19 20:56
not like they death ray anything that kills in one hit so generally stats and dreads only
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PsyCrow
Admiral
Joined: June 21, 2012
Posts: 56
| Posted: 2013-05-19 23:08
BTW, the MI torpedoes DO shoot from 4k and DO have a 200gu splash radius, not 20.
I am literally not exaggerating at all.
I was barely within supply range of a ship (250) and took critical damage from the 4 core weapons hitting the one I was supplying.
Even though I was well outside of the visible explosion radius, still took damage. It actually took me a while to figure out what it was at first.
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Deth *CO2*
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 193
| Posted: 2013-05-20 00:19
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 23:08, PsyCrow wrote:
BTW, the MI torpedoes DO shoot from 4k and DO have a 200gu splash radius, not 20.
I am literally not exaggerating at all.
I was barely within supply range of a ship (250) and took critical damage from the 4 core weapons hitting the one I was supplying.
Even though I was well outside of the visible explosion radius, still took damage. It actually took me a while to figure out what it was at first.
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They do track as well
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2013-05-20 03:31
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 14:03, PsyCrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-05-19 13:50, Taelon*RO* wrote:
Mi are boring? or do you think they are too hard?
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4k range torps that seek and have a 200gu explosion radius, and beams which can destroy a cruiser before it makes a 45 degree turn...
Its done in such a way as to be more annoying than challenging.
They are not rewarding to fight in any way, as anything short of an assault class wont be able to dish out damage faster than they repair it.
They don't drop especially good enhancements or give more prestige than normal, in fact they give less prestige because of having less armor but high damage resistance...
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Most of the torp data is correct baring the blast radius. Its closer to 15 to 20 (if my memory serves me it is an Ion torpedo in which it is 15). If it was 200 Gus My destroyer would be taking damage on ALL my arcs but that inst the case with it being at that one arc or the one adjacent depending on hit location. The range is some 3500 Gus and it does track to about 15 degrees.
Now the beams that isnt true. May get close if your a luth ship and CLOSE to the mir ship. But other than that not true, taken LH beams with my combat destroyer and lost about 15% Total shield before i ducked back out of range.
Everything else i agree on
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-05-20 04:08
He says, she says.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-05-20 10:39
Quote:
On 2013-05-20 03:31, Soulless *CO* wrote:
Now the beams that isnt true. May get close if your a luth ship and CLOSE to the mir ship. But other than that not true, taken LH beams with my combat destroyer and lost about 15% Total shield before i ducked back out of range.
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those are the release/old death beams.
the beta/new MI deathbeams instantly obliterate stations or all types in less than 1 second (and the beam stays on for about 5-7 seconds...go figure how many stations can be killed if put in a long line.
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-05-20 14:57
he means lasers mike and the "death beam" Is a sigularity lance not like i would knwo or anything
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