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My two cents. |
Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
|  Posted: 2013-07-02 15:26
Quote:
On 2013-07-02 13:55, woodburner wrote:
I cant agree more on the AI, there are just far too much of them for the game to be fun when playing by your self, when there are no real people on.
As for MI planet busting this should be stopped
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He's talking about AI when people are on. You're on about something completely different.
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-07-02 15:35
I personally think the channeling of all player traffic from the primary systems into Kaus Borealis is one of the things that harmed us the most. I understand that it sounded like a good idea at the time but I think most of us prefer something like the .483 map or the new 1.7 map where we have more options as to where we want to invade.
-Sheraton
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Xydes
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 07, 2009
Posts: 276
From: England
| Posted: 2013-07-02 15:37
Quote:
On 2013-07-02 13:55, woodburner wrote:
I cant agree more on the AI, there are just far too much of them for the game to be fun when playing by your self, when there are no real people on.
As for MI planet busting this should be stopped
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That confused me a bit. You want there to be less AI even when you are playing by yourself when no one else is on?
That doesn't sound... smart? I mean, me personally, I am happy the AI are there when I am playing on my own. Gives me something to do when there is a bit of downtime between the combat.
Please elaborate if I am wrong in what you are stating is: You'd rather there be less AI despite there being little-to-no players on.
-Xydes
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Taelon
Marshal
Joined: December 26, 2011
Posts: 255
| Posted: 2013-07-02 15:58
I think ai shouldnt repsond to calls at all, and shouldn't group around players, i think that would mainly solve the ai issues.
As for the MI issues about planet bombing, that is the MI they do that, kill them before they can is all i can say, or get 100% PD
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Valiant Wolf
Admiral
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 15
| Posted: 2013-07-02 16:10
My opinion on the AI is a bit mixed. Personally I've always found the AI a good thing to have around, whether it be watching them derp about, or having them decide to fight beside you. I've always seen them as a round peg that fits into the square hole that the game's small playerbase leaves.
They /can/ fight, build, repair, transport and patrol, but they will never be able to do that at the same level as a player, and I can accept that fact. If I get on and the MV is empty-ish (at is usually is mid-GMT-afternoon), the AI have always been something for me to shoot/get shot by until more players inevitably join. I definately see elites a challenge (yet not an impossibility) to solo.
I think probably one of the only flaws with the AI is the way in which they interact with players; I was a fan of the ability to order AI about and I think the game has lost something in it's removal. Imagine you're fighting an AI elite and winning despite taking significant damage, and suddenly a group of about five destroyers/cruisers jumps to their aid, all with their orders inevitably set to "Defend Elite". The tables have suddenly turned, and unless your JD is available you're pretty much dead. Earlier in the fight the elite obviously sent a distress, and being an elite got a load of ships to back them up; the problem lying in the fact that if /you/ were to do the same, the AI will almost always simply ignore you and leave you for dead regardless. The same applies to players: if there are only a couple of players on, if one can pull AI successfully, then the other might as well disconnect as they will be vastly outgunned should they decide to show their face at all.
To condense that: AI are very capable of doing player tasks, but are no replacement for actual players. AI responsiveness, although it should never return to being able to order them about, should probably be biased more toward players.
Just my opinion
~Wolf
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-07-02 16:15
Quote:
On 2013-07-02 16:10, Valiant Wolf[S-2] wrote:
I think probably one of the only flaws with the AI is the way in which they interact with players; I was a fan of the ability to order AI about and I think the game has lost something in it's removal.
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Except that people would just spam distress until they arrived, and people got feddup and logged off. You may have liked it, but the majority did not.
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2013-07-02 18:54
Quote:
On 2013-07-02 16:15, Pantheon wrote:
Except that people would just spam distress until they arrived, and people got feddup and logged off.
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On the opposite to what you think Jack.
When players engage, both side call for AI via distress. But people get feddup because their AI don't show up in time or enough.
The first reason is the gate where NPC spawns. This is quite simple: when UGTO evades ICC clusters, obviously there will be more ICC NPC, and ICC NPC even response more quickly to the distress. Imagine 3 UGTO players & no AI vs 2 ICC & 8 AI in Dres Kona.Will UGTO be angry? No wonder.
Due to jump cooldown, AI will not appear when you need it most. I believe people prefer logging off and wait 2 min instead of waiting for AI.
The second reason is the NPC AI. From my witness, different ships have different favor. I can say dread & station NPC will focus attack the biggest red ship - all at one at a time, cruiser & destroyer NPC will attack something smaller. In this case, NPC will either capture the kill or cause players to FF.
It's alright for someone to kill me but I'm so mad to be killed by an AI. On the other hand, how could we know if the enhancement does not drop on AI when it does the finish blow beside stealing prestige off human (both sides)?
AI is also annoying. They contribute many ECCM but they don't turn their ECM on. And I believe there is an UGTO agincourt NPC always heads to bomb Fargo Rock.
Players frequently ask 2 options: either limit the combat NPC (1 des, 1 cruiser, 1 dread instead of 4 des, 3 cruiser, 2 dread) and increase utility NPC (3 engineer, 3 worker instead of 2 engineer, 2 worker); or allow player to direct AI to make it useful at the correct time.
There were times players complaining directing AI involving too deep in bombing planet. Well, that's pretty fair. Every time I bomb a planet, red NPC quickly gather there. If NPC automatically protect green planet, why should they not assist bombing red one?
In general, I support the option to limit the number of combat NPC. NPC direction must not be allowed. NPC direction can cause conflicts between players and can lead to abusement. If players can direct NPC, they won't buy ally enhancement. It absolutely damages the income of Darkspace.
NPC is necessary and it must exist in game. True. However if you look at F2 and see more NPC than human, you will feel like acting in Star Wars - The Clone Wars.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2013-07-03 01:18
DS has been one of the single greatest things I've ever enjoyed. I have the utmost respect and admiration for Faustus, the Dev's, and the Staff throughout the years. I eagerly await the next installment.
I agree, the lack of ppl on DS is the number 1 problem. The only thing I can say from my time here is that IMHO the player base never recovered after the planet SY's were put into the game. I remember this being in early 2003? I understand why F did this as he wanted to direct the then player base into the MV (as that was the real stage). Another major factor in this being that people were ranking up A LOT faster in the FA Server. (At the time I remember Mr. Jim Starluck not stepping a foot in FA and being very proud of his MV Dessy. But I digress.) I bring this back up because the major thing that kept me coming back to the FA server (besides only having 2-4 hours a night to play) then was that i never knew what faction I would be on (regardless of Fleet) or who I would be up against. It was a great way to learn from other players, be it friends or enemys. I can't tell you how many times I would cam players to study and learn their "kung fu" It was a thrill trying to keep my stats intact every night. I know I don't have all the answers, and other old timers are sick of me (Char) continually bringing this up.So long story short, now (10 yrs later) we have all the button mashing fun just like the FA of the old days.. but now there are no people.
The only answer I have to give is one that you already know & have considered.. Ie: to shrink the sand box & player factions from 3 to 2. The only thing I really know for sure is that DS is a great game & as soon as I win the Lotto, there aint a darn thing I can say that will make any difference. Unless we outsource some of the AI jobs? lol
Anyways its late and time for bed, I'll stop back around in another 6 months to check in.
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2013-07-03 03:07
I know what you mean.. to this day 90% of my time is still in the scenario server. I miss its glory days just like I miss the older massive MV maps..
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2013-07-03 03:42
I agree with a lot of the above sentiment , I love DS and keep coming back for more , and yes happy memories of logging on those first times to see moosive fleet battles ongoing where the timing of your entry point into battle and then your exit jump were vital for survival lol.
I am really looking forward to 1.7 and the new changes and praise be heaped on the devs for the time taken and input freely into the game.
I however find the AI to be the single most annoying / offputting things in game , to clarify i have no problems with trannies , supps , engis etc I do have a problem with another player (who i would like to fight) having a shield of ai floating around that seem to gravitate towards me and have their wicked way (jk) befre i even get to the opponent.
I can handle the sad loss of ping etc but for me the standout gripe is ai , I have no problem with there being an area that AI can be fought/farmed etc but for me it would not be the main player vs player areas.
Anyways I think we all agree that 1.7 is looking so exciting and cant wait to try them all out 
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UnknownWarrior
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 724
From: North Carolina, USA
| Posted: 2013-07-03 07:08
I agree with all the above sentiments here. I remember my early days here. Massive fleet formations moving against one another, VERY LONG JUMPS between systems to avoid gates and avoid detection on raids (Back before the WH). I also remember flying dreads in fear of CL2K Kluth Dessies (Oh the nightmares o_o)
The last version has left little to work for except for AI Spam and lack of player activity.
Ive read the Dev Logs, and played some of the Beta (Plan on doing more), and I really like what I see and can also see why the devs moved in that direction. Right now, aside from rank, theres no real motivation to get promoted and work for something. With the new Tier System, that changes that.
We also give new players a better shot at excelling in this game, instead of being insta-cannon fodder. That in turn will HOPEFULLY draw in some new recruits.
And being a long time DS Vet myself, it is with great hopes that 1.7 will draw back some old faces to the game, which that alone could spice things up, and who knows, maybe see the return of some great dormant fleets?
I personally look forward to 1.7 going live, and plan on personally joining in on the fun on a more regular basis.
Excellent work, and kudos for Jack, Faustus and the rest of the Dev team for their diligent work here. Without them, Darkspace would surely be lost.
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