| Author |
A brief(ish) analysis of the Psychology behind Darkspace players. |
Hiigaran
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 27
|  Posted: 2013-08-27 04:01
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 20:10, Fluttershy wrote:
What exactly happened in 1.483?
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Subscription:
-If you didnt subscribe (monthly, 3months, 6months) your rank was locked to midshipman. You WERE gaining prestige you just couldnt see it. I was playing more than a year with the 'demo' account and then decided to activate my 14 day trial (every new register recived a 14 day free trial) and guess what rank was ? 1st Rear Adm with just little remaining to Admiral.
Upgrades and credits:
-One day while I was flying in my scout some one gave me 100000000000$ and told to upgrade my armor and weapons. I tryed to figure it what the VCA (old fleet) player actually wanted and when I followed his instructions i had 20 more armor rings and my weapons were a lot more powerfull. I still don't understand where the big players got all this credits but i know they were handing them out to new players. (upgrades cost $)
Starport:
-Walmart. K'luth need better armor ? standard armor. UGTO need better weapons ? psi cannons. ICC need ??? (i actually dont know i wasnt playing icc back then and i regret it) but EVERY one wanted psi cannons.
Planets and bombing:
-If you to 5000gu (standard detection range) of the planets you would start hearing insane clicking noise- more missiels than a mother of a missiel dread. If you got even close to around 1000gu or 500 or ... the planet lasers (kluth-disruptors, icc-pulse, ugto-chemical) would start ripping you apart.
-Kluth. If you didnt had ecm you were dead.disruptors were REALY REALY powerful however fire rate was slow and could never kill all incoming bombs
-ICC. Weak pulse cannon did almost no dmg but 1 def base could kill 10000 bombs flying in (quick fire rate)
-UGTO. Something between icc and kluth.
-Cloud bombing ((((:. a bug where if you stacked bombes their blast radius would increase (on the DS homepage there's still a banner of a dread cloud bombing)
No AI.
-when you saw something red you got scared and you valued it alot more
thats 1.483 more or less ...
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MarineKingPrime
Marshal
Exathra Alliance Fleet
Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 239
From: CSS CheezyBagels
| Posted: 2013-08-27 04:05
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 20:10, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 19:46, coolestguy wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 18:50, Pantheon wrote:
it was that more people want balanced fun than to be overpowered and/or unfair.
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Just wondering but if thats true there should be more players on and a growing player base right?
I know ive been gone almost a year and there are far fewer players which is sad, this game is great.
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You jus... what?
You just quoted my post, questioned it, and then answered your own question with my post.
Perhaps you should read it again?
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-08-26 20:10 ]
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i think he meant that if people wanted more balanced fun, then more people would actually be playing the game.
really, you can have a very balanced game but it doesn't mean that it's well designed or fun. i almost have zero motivation to login because theres no point.
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Fatal Afro Man *NCO*
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: September 09, 2006
Posts: 201
| Posted: 2013-08-27 05:25
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 20:10, Fluttershy wrote:
What exactly happened in 1.483?
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ICC and UGTO picket ships were the most overpowered ships in the game.
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Ardex
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 17, 2012
Posts: 14
| Posted: 2013-08-27 05:42
Where can one find the full Devlog? The one on the right only goes as far back as 1.670. I know I saw one once going back much further but cannot find the link.
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Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse
Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
| Posted: 2013-08-27 06:34
www.darkspace.net/index.htm?lang=en&module=log.php&limit=86
the 480. nothing more, nothing less.
incidentally, you can also increase the limit to arbitrarily high numbers. no, this does not reveal the whole of the DS devlog
issued in public interest
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Forging legends and lives outside till naught remains inside.
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Cold Death
Admiral
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 106
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2013-08-27 06:43
Well, from what I hear, 1.483 was pretty damn dreadful. But I'm happy that the game has improved since then, and by the looks of it, I think 1.7 might actually be some of the best updates to the game that I've seen ( Note: Playing since mid 2011 ).
But, even if this update somehow brings many of the old veteran players back, there's still the issue of newbies. A game cannot sustain a constant playerbase without an influx of new players. I've applied this logic before in many other threads, but the first thing that new players see is always the website. Perhaps screenshots, but the entire point of the website is to "sell" the game to this new potential player. And, no offence to the website designer ( whoever that may be ), but this design would probably sell in 2004, not 9 years later. Eye candy "requirements" are no longer limited to just the game itself, but also the website which aims to sell said game. And with 1.7, I'd say there's plenty of new fancy models to look at, which are gorgeous by the way. The website on the other hand.. yeah, I hope you get my point.
And I understand if you can't address the issue, website designers willing to work for free because they want something to succeed are far and few in between. And never forget, whenever everything else fails, you've got a community which would gladly help! Perhaps not with the actual website programming, but suggestions and art assets are never hard to come by. All you need to do is ask, we're here to help 
[ This Message was edited by: Cold Death on 2013-08-27 06:45 ]
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Hiigaran
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 27
| Posted: 2013-08-27 08:33
did i mention the editor ? awesome
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2013-08-27 08:37
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 06:43, Cold Death wrote:
Well, from what I hear, 1.483 was pretty damn dreadful. But I'm happy that the game has improved since then, and by the looks of it, I think 1.7 might actually be some of the best updates to the game that I've seen ( Note: Playing since mid 2011 ).
But, even if this update somehow brings many of the old veteran players back, there's still the issue of newbies. A game cannot sustain a constant playerbase without an influx of new players. I've applied this logic before in many other threads, but the first thing that new players see is always the website. Perhaps screenshots, but the entire point of the website is to "sell" the game to this new potential player. And, no offence to the website designer ( whoever that may be ), but this design would probably sell in 2004, not 9 years later. Eye candy "requirements" are no longer limited to just the game itself, but also the website which aims to sell said game. And with 1.7, I'd say there's plenty of new fancy models to look at, which are gorgeous by the way. The website on the other hand.. yeah, I hope you get my point.
And I understand if you can't address the issue, website designers willing to work for free because they want something to succeed are far and few in between. And never forget, whenever everything else fails, you've got a community which would gladly help! Perhaps not with the actual website programming, but suggestions and art assets are never hard to come by. All you need to do is ask, we're here to help
[ This Message was edited by: Cold Death on 2013-08-27 06:45 ]
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It was dreadful when you got things like a torp MD, flux AC yada yada yada appear in your face..OHH EADS could cloak. It was the insaneness of the game that made it a blast, now i wish we could have a privately hosted server or something with 483 on it just to have some chaotic fun
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2013-08-27 09:30
I miss when a kill count meant something.
I miss when bombing wasn't a snooze. (Older cloud bombing was FUN and not so overpowered! Bombs had an small aoe before the glassing buff.. and if you built planets correctly.. a good cloud bomb would still only take out one structure.. now its just shoot bombs and hope no AI jump in and pd you.)
I miss when I felt like I could make a real impact even by my lonesome. (Like during previously mentioned cloud bombing.. running into that beautiful cloud just ruined that whole bombing attempt.. infantry meaning something.. being able to drop loads of troops to keep your planet. *Interdictors ships*)
I miss scenarios.
I miss missions (Bored? Go to a small system and get money and small amounts of bonus prestige..)
I miss unconnected systems. (Before shipyards... long jumping with your fleet to take over a hard to reach system.. knowing it would take the defenders time to get there.. giving you just enough time to take a few planets..)
I miss the older MV maps where every system mattered. (I know Jack doesnt understand and maybe its just an immersion factor.. but *I* remember the days when factions would strive for complete domination. Capturing it all for your faction, the glory of forcing that MV reset and trying for it all again. What in my mind was always THE GOAL of this game after they killed the scenario server. Things like low ranked systems and uncapturable planets really irk me. Why do we NEED low ranked systems? Obviously we do not have more than 5 new people a day.. And I bet you 4 out of those 5 dont even go to those systems.. why would you want to play alone? Wouldnt you want to actually interact with people and learn? And if not.. the scenario server offers a whole hell of a lot more as it gives you all aspects of the game ina reasonable amount of time. Uncapturable planets for AI is just as unfathoming. They dont spawn from these planets. They dont build them or use them. Whats the point? Yes we know the MI and pirates exist. If they want a planet.. they can use there dumb 1 shot glass gun and get it. But I at least want the option to take it back.)
I just dont get it the priority on updates for this game anymore..
New ships, new models and prettier everything is great.. but helps nothing if the game and goals are still broken and undesirable.
Fleet levels are a great idea and I hope they actually give you something worthwhile soon.
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I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-08-27 09:59
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 09:30, AdmiralChaos *FL* wrote:
I miss when a kill count meant something.
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It doesn't anymore? My bad, I thought kill count was meaningless in 1.480 because K'Luth could fit CL2K's on destroyers and their kill counts were massively inflated as a result . Not to mention everyone always said kill count doesn't matter (last hit kill, etc).
Quote:
I miss when bombing wasn't a snooze. (Older cloud bombing was FUN and not so overpowered! Bombs had an small aoe before the glassing buff.. and if you built planets correctly.. a good cloud bomb would still only take out one structure.. now its just shoot bombs and hope no AI jump in and pd you.)
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You can still cloud bomb.
Quote:
I miss when I felt like I could make a real impact even by my lonesome. (Like during previously mentioned cloud bombing.. running into that beautiful cloud just ruined that whole bombing attempt.. infantry meaning something.. being able to drop loads of troops to keep your planet. *Interdictors ships*)
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People don't like one person being able to take out an entire system. That was pretty much one of the main complaints of 1.483 - our worst patch ever.
It's still there
Quote:
I miss missions (Bored? Go to a small system and get money and small amounts of bonus prestige..)
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They were horrendously broken and awarded free prestige. They will be added back in with time. There's only so much two programmers can do  .
Quote:
I miss unconnected systems. (Before shipyards... long jumping with your fleet to take over a hard to reach system.. knowing it would take the defenders time to get there.. giving you just enough time to take a few planets..)
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This was the reason the servers lagged. It isn't possible to have this in a scalable enviroment.
Quote:
I miss the older MV maps where every system mattered. (I know Jack doesnt understand and maybe its just an immersion factor.. but *I* remember the days when factions would strive for complete domination. Capturing it all for your faction, the glory of forcing that MV reset and trying for it all again. What in my mind was always THE GOAL of this game after they killed the scenario server. Things like low ranked systems and uncapturable planets really irk me. Why do we NEED low ranked systems? Obviously we do not have more than 5 new people a day.. And I bet you 4 out of those 5 dont even go to those systems.. why would you want to play alone? Wouldnt you want to actually interact with people and learn? And if not.. the scenario server offers a whole hell of a lot more as it gives you all aspects of the game ina reasonable amount of time. Uncapturable planets for AI is just as unfathoming. They dont spawn from these planets. They dont build them or use them. Whats the point? Yes we know the MI and pirates exist. If they want a planet.. they can use there dumb 1 shot glass gun and get it. But I at least want the option to take it back.)
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You need low ranked systems for low ranked players who are learning the ropes. It doesn't matter if we only have x new people a day, those x people still need a fair enviroment to play in. Scenario and the low ranked zones give them that place.
Uncapturable planets are required because we haven't finished the dynamic event system yet. As a result, the AI always need a place to spawn from, otherwise they wouldn't exist. And you may think they don't spawn from them, but they do.
Quote:
I just dont get it the priority on updates for this game anymore..
New ships, new models and prettier everything is great.. but helps nothing if the game and goals are still broken and undesirable.
Fleet levels are a great idea and I hope they actually give you something worthwhile soon.
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Those are only the things you can see. There's little point on having content developers if you're not going to use them. Otherwise they'd be stuck doing nothing half the time whilst me and Faustus work on things whenever we can. It, if I'm speaking honestly, pisses me off to all ends of the world when people moan about this. You seem to think we should be able to fire out things that tripple A studio's do with hundreds of developers. We have six developers. One works on maps (layout of the universe), one works on models, two work on ship layouts and content and things, and me and Faustus work on code. That's it. All these "simple" things you request require immence time to impliment. You don't think we'd add them back in if we had the time to? Ignorance like this is what has driven developers who've worked on DarkSpace away in the past, and is still a problem. Please, stop and think for a second.
The priority is to make this game fun again, but if you only have two part time programmers working on the game, this makes things difficult. As I stated above. You don't think we'd love to have the dynamic event system now, or a more in-depth planetary system, or x, y, and z? You'd be an idiot to think that we don't.
I don't understand half of your complaints, honestly. You should know the answers. You were there. People always look back at the 480 ero with INSANELY rose-tinted goggles and don't remember there were more complaints about the game then then now.
People often make this mistake when commenting on DarkSpace. Faustus has often theorised it's because we give you so much access to ourselves, and I suspect he doesn't post much on the forums anymore purely because players can skew your thoughts, and a lot of the time, players have no idea what they're asking for, or what they're saying.
This is going to sound cocky, but I don't intend it to. Every developer of a game I've spoken to states a similar thing, so this is an industry-wide observation...
You guys have no idea what you're asking for 99% of the time. You can have ideas, you can state things, but a lot of the time, you have no idea what on earth you're doing. You don't think like a developer, you don't theorise like a programmer. And why would you, you're not paid to. You purely think of it from a "MY ENJOYMENT" perspective, and again, why wouldn't you. But when you complain, you do it from that single perspective. You don't pan around and do it from ours, in most cases because you can't - who would expect you to have the knowledge of a programmer or game designer?
In almost all outfits, you have a VERY limited number of people contacting the community. Have you ever wondered why that was? People working in the industry get PAID to do their job, and they still don't like to talk to their community. That should give you an idea of just how far removed we have to be, not want, but have (as an industry). Sometimes I want to go into a fleets forum, post a topic, and ask for feedback, but it will be 100% biased, and the few times that I've done this, I've had to tell myself constantly to just listen, and not take the feedback. If they like the idea, but not the numbers, then you do it your way, not theirs.
You don't see the crippling server lag which forced us to change our architecture so we can't have un-connected systems. You couldn't see the process load that planets were putting on the systems, so we had to remove the point defence and firing systems for a more processor-friendly version. You can't see the fact that missions were broken because people were gaining 10k prestige a day just by spamming scout missions. You couldn't see the HORRENDOUSLY out of balance CL2K dessies which skewed kill ratio's so much one faction had 500% more kills than the other (has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, I'm aware you want to troll those few other K'Luth players who probably want to chime in). You didn't see the flux dreads which made the game completely unfun for those on the receiving end.
The be all, and end all of this entire thread is a problem.
Coeus states that people want to be overpowered, to be the superhero/villian. That's fine. But this is a PvP game. If you're going to be overpowered and have fun, there's someone on the other end who isn't having fun and is pissed off. When you've driven off all the people who want a balanced game, all you have left is people being overpowered to one another, and honestly, the mentality of those people leaves a lot to be desired for in a community. Ask any volunteer staff member during 483 what it was like. A lot of them left due to it.
Balance is always the best way to go. Those that want unbalanced fun can quite happily trott off to another game which is horrendously imbalanced.
Those complaining about X/Y/Z, for the love of all that is Faustus, please take a step back and ask yourself "I wonder why they did that?". It isn't because we hate you. We don't remove things because we think "THATS FUN, REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY!". There's always a reason. ALWAYS.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-08-27 10:15 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-08-27 10:00
It's a common occurence. Most ppl play to win, in addition to just having fun. It's a PvP game. We're all competitive in some ways, some more than others.
But enough about players' mentalities. TBH, there's nothing anyone can do to change a person's inclination towards wanting one-shot, overpowered, cheap, brutal, bullying, or griefing, .....etc etc... gameplay. Maybe DS can benefit from looking at other similar successful games out there to find out what makes them work, despite some aspects of them being seemingly unbalanced.
This is by no means a critique of DS, or any other games that may be mentioned. I'm merely looking at aspects of the games or genres, and trying to see how we can potentially take good aspects of one game/genre to fit it in with DS.
DS is, IMO, an amalgamation of an MMO and Shooter. So I'm just making general comparisons of the similarities and difference which i observe between the two genres and DS.
If we’re looking at DS vs other more typical MMOs, we can see;
What’s your personal objective?
Typical MMOs (WoW, Jumpgate, etc) -
>> Experience Points (XP), levelling up,
>> Getting loot drops from your AI kills, or player item drops from PVP kills (if the game so allows)
>> Getting In-game currency via loot, trade, or even real purchases (depends on game) to upgrade your character and equipment
DS -
>> Prestige (equivalent to XP), Ranking up (similar to leveling up, though there are not as many levels, but the requirements are steep)
>> Getting drops from kills (loot), in the form of enhancements.
>> In-game currency, credits, are not earned through combat but through buying, Alternatively, can be given creds by other players, or obtained through trade.
Balance between players, game units
Typical MMOs
>> Quite variable. There is probably little focus on balance. A level 99 player could ‘one-shot’ anyone under level 10 or maybe even 20.
>> Some games may have mechanics to protect the newbies. May come in the form of a No-PVP, safe-, newbie, or high security zones) where newbs can safely level up via PVE and AI farming until they’re powerful or confident enough to venture out into ‘0.0-space’, where anything goes.
DS
>> Attempts to balance units versus each other in a rock, paper, scissors manner
>> DS has newbie-friendly zones in the form of rank limited Rogen’s Rift, though it’s actually a pretty long haul to level up via killing AIs.
But the PVP aspect is still there in Rogen’s, and a more experienced player in a good cruiser (or basically any smaller ship) can still grief a noob in a frigate.
Feeling of ownership/investment in your game (character)
Typical MMOs
>> You ARE your character. You feel a sense of being.
>> You own your in-game assets, and can even personalize them in some games. (You may own a car, house, spacecraft, factories, facilities, etc in some other games)
>> Loss of a game item may be permanent, and at great cost personally to your in-game stats/money
DS
>> All you have are your enhanced ships in your Garage
>> Recently, ship names give you a small modicum of that sense of ownership
>> You don't lose any items. When you die, you may lose an enh if its durability goes to zero, but it's no big deal otherwise as you can simply purchase another one
Economy
Other MMOs
>> You can buy/sell items on the virtual marketplace with your in-game cash
>> In some game, you can even trade with other players
>> Some games even have more complex economies where supply/demand in a sector of the gameworld can impact prices of items there, and in other part of the game universe
DS
>> Basic (or non existent economy). You pay for in-game currency, and you simply buy your enh in the garage
>> You may be able to do simple trades by transferring enh to another player, and then having him/her transfer credits to you, but it's all working around the game's system than through it.
>> Simple resource system
And then you realize that DS is not a full character driven MMORPG. It has the persistent element of an MMO, but it plays more like an open-world shooter game.
So we next make comparisons of DS to shooter games, like TF2, Battlefield, etc.
Mix of units/player classes
Shooter games
>> Has different classes of units (eg, scout, support, armor)
>> Some games allow different levels within those classes depending on your level/rank
>> You need different classes/roles to succeed in the map's objective (especially true in multi- and varied unit games like Battlefield)
DS
>> Has different classes of ships (beams, supply, assault)
>> As you rank up, you get access to higher level, and possibly larger and more powerful ships
>> You do need different ship types to succeed in taking the system or MV (Combat to fight the enemy, suppies to replenish, trannies to land troops, engies to rebuild the rock)
Fast action / return to action
Shooters
>> In most shooter game, once you get killed, you will be able to respawn again in very short order
>> Respawn happens at either fixed spawn points, or variable spawn points depending your team's progress
>> In some games, you can even respawn around your team leader, if you're grouped up. This gives an incentive to group up.
DS
>> You can respawn immediately
>> Your respawn points depends on your SYs
>> You can't respawn around a team leader, only at SYs
Unit balance
Shooter
>> It's not always balanced. If you're an infantry unit going up against a tank, helo gunship, or fighter/bomber, you're usually SOL unless you can grab a (probably marginally effective) counter weapon to take out that unit (eg, man portable SAM vs Fighter in Battlefield). But you usually need another Jet or helicopter, to take out another jet or helicopter.
>> May not even need to be balanced, due to aforementioned ability to respawn fast, and sometimes even within a group/squad
>> Limited number of powerful units (eg, there are limited... sometimes only one or two... powerful units; eg Gunships, that can spawn or exist per team at any given time)
>> Games often use class limits to force a sort of balance, or variety of roles, among the players at any one time
DS
>> Aims to have a rock/paper/scissors balance where all ships have a strong point, and a weak point against other ships/roles. But there are always distinct advantages (eg. Especially Assault ships in PVP combat)
>> Ships tend to need more balancing to avoid "best ship" scenario. But invariably, the ships that perform well tend to be assault class bruisers
>> You use what you have in your Garage, and players can spawn whatever they want. There could be 10 or 20 stations at any one go
>> Has no class limits. Players are free to spawn whatever they like, which may exacerbate an unbalanced scenario further
There are definitely more factors that make any one genre or game unique. And you will notice that there are common traits between some/all games/genres. The trick is in finding and mixing/blending those factors into something that is both fun... and more or less balanced.
These are what I can think of at the moment. Feel free to add in more.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-08-27 10:12 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2013-08-27 10:25
If we wanted to make a game for people to get the very best, we could have done that easy a long time ago. And we could probably make a killing from it too, from selling enhancements even better than the ones we already have.
But do we really want that? Pay to win is an equally great way to keep players, as there are so many people out there willing to pay for the priviledge of being invicible compared to other players.
To me, even subsequent patch has introduced flaws into the game, flaws that consistently have driven away players and kept new ones from joining.
Yes, people do want to just fight and always have the advantage, but I think thats because people haven't often been given the opportunity to participate in settings where everything is truly a fair fight. Almost anyone will agree, a real battle is more exciting and more fun than any one sided battle will ever be - its just more work, and if there is an alternative with no risk you can bet people will take it.
Gimmicky things like Tractor Scouts were fun only for the people who used them, and station stacking was an idle venture spawned from the very bored that the imbalances of the time caused.
If people want a broken game where you already have the best. look no further - we might as well just delete everything that has been done so far because you have that version of Darkspace already.
And its not fun.
This should change that. There are literally hundreds of new ships, weapon designs and effects, ship models and game mechanics. Gadgets that have been long useless or ineffective now have something to do. A dozen upon a dozen of choices, all balanced to their strengths and weaknesses.
And you call that boring? You wouldn't call that an improvement? Where maybe you DONT have to fly a station to win? Maybe that is boring to you, and if thats the case maybe Darkspace never was for you to begin with. Because thats not a real game, you might as well pick a Korean MMO of your choice and throw your paycheck into it if you want that satisfaction.
-Ent
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-08-27 10:44
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 10:25, Enterprise wrote:
Because thats not a real game, you might as well pick a Korean MMO of your choice and throw your paycheck into it if you want that satisfaction.
-Ent
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I LOL'ed at this.
So frakking true.
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2013-08-27 11:56
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 09:59, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 09:30, AdmiralChaos *FL* wrote:
I miss when a kill count meant something.
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Quote:
It doesn't anymore? My bad, I thought kill count was meaningless in 1.480 because K'Luth could fit CL2K's on destroyers and their kill counts were massively inflated as a result . Not to mention everyone always said kill count doesn't matter (last hit kill, etc).
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You had to at least find and kill a player for that. Now you can just go farm some AI. Solution? Make AI not count toward kill counts. (I am not a programmer, I do not understand how to make one do so, I am not implying this would be an easy task. I am simply offering a suggestion.)
Quote:
I miss when bombing wasn't a snooze. (Older cloud bombing was FUN and not so overpowered! Bombs had an small aoe before the glassing buff.. and if you built planets correctly.. a good cloud bomb would still only take out one structure.. now its just shoot bombs and hope no AI jump in and pd you.)
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Quote:
You can still cloud bomb.
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But why would I? Nothing but AI will shoot me down. And you can't launch bombs past 750 gu.
Quote:
I miss when I felt like I could make a real impact even by my lonesome. (Like during previously mentioned cloud bombing.. running into that beautiful cloud just ruined that whole bombing attempt.. infantry meaning something.. being able to drop loads of troops to keep your planet. *Interdictors ships*)
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Quote:
People don't like one person being able to take out an entire system. That was pretty much one of the main complaints of 1.483 - our worst patch ever.
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I did not mention I wanted to take over systems by myself nor did I make note that being able to do such a thing was absolutely the greatest thing in the world. I am just saying I miss being able to do something when you have no one on your faction to support you. (How you would do this, I dont know. I am well aware you cannot make a game around the fact that we have a tiny playerbase and still hope for it to grow, and if there were a way, I am not a programmer, I do not know how.)
You damn well know what I mean.
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I miss missions (Bored? Go to a small system and get money and small amounts of bonus prestige..)
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They were horrendously broken and awarded free prestige. They will be added back in with time. There's only so much two programmers can do .
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I am aware, I am just stating that I enjoy them and look forward to the day they come back. I just miss the option.
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I miss unconnected systems. (Before shipyards... long jumping with your fleet to take over a hard to reach system.. knowing it would take the defenders time to get there.. giving you just enough time to take a few planets..)
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This was the reason the servers lagged. It isn't possible to have this in a scalable enviroment.
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Do gates really make all the difference? But ill take your word for it, as I don't know and wouldn't understand anyway.
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I miss the older MV maps where every system mattered. (I know Jack doesnt understand and maybe its just an immersion factor.. but *I* remember the days when factions would strive for complete domination. Capturing it all for your faction, the glory of forcing that MV reset and trying for it all again. What in my mind was always THE GOAL of this game after they killed the scenario server. Things like low ranked systems and uncapturable planets really irk me. Why do we NEED low ranked systems? Obviously we do not have more than 5 new people a day.. And I bet you 4 out of those 5 dont even go to those systems.. why would you want to play alone? Wouldnt you want to actually interact with people and learn? And if not.. the scenario server offers a whole hell of a lot more as it gives you all aspects of the game ina reasonable amount of time. Uncapturable planets for AI is just as unfathoming. They dont spawn from these planets. They dont build them or use them. Whats the point? Yes we know the MI and pirates exist. If they want a planet.. they can use there dumb 1 shot glass gun and get it. But I at least want the option to take it back.)
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You need low ranked systems for low ranked players who are learning the ropes. It doesn't matter if we only have x new people a day, those x people still need a fair enviroment to play in. Scenario and the low ranked zones give them that place.
Uncapturable planets are required because we haven't finished the dynamic event system yet. As a result, the AI always need a place to spawn from, otherwise they wouldn't exist. And you may think they don't spawn from them, but they do.
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You basically agreed with what I just said. Scenarios can get the job done. Why both?
As for the AI planets, fair enough but one question, I have never seen pirates in the middle systems. Why is it there? And if they are needed to spawn.. why dont home systems have AI planets?
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I just dont get it the priority on updates for this game anymore..
New ships, new models and prettier everything is great.. but helps nothing if the game and goals are still broken and undesirable.
Fleet levels are a great idea and I hope they actually give you something worthwhile soon.
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Those are only the things you can see. There's little point on having content developers if you're not going to use them. Otherwise they'd be stuck doing nothing half the time whilst me and Faustus work on things whenever we can. It, if I'm speaking honestly, pisses me off to all ends of the world when people moan about this. You seem to think we should be able to fire out things that tripple A studio's do with hundreds of developers. We have six developers. One works on maps (layout of the universe), one works on models, two work on ship layouts and content and things, and me and Faustus work on code. That's it. All these "simple" things you request require immence time to impliment. You don't think we'd add them back in if we had the time to? Ignorance like this is what has driven developers who've worked on DarkSpace away in the past, and is still a problem. Please, stop and think for a second.
The priority is to make this game fun again, but if you only have two part time programmers working on the game, this makes things difficult. As I stated above. You don't think we'd love to have the dynamic event system now, or a more in-depth planetary system, or x, y, and z? You'd be an idiot to think that we don't.
I don't understand half of your complaints, honestly. You should know the answers. You were there. People always look back at the 480 ero with INSANELY rose-tinted goggles and don't remember there were more complaints about the game then then now.
People often make this mistake when commenting on DarkSpace. Faustus has often theorised it's because we give you so much access to ourselves, and I suspect he doesn't post much on the forums anymore purely because players can skew your thoughts, and a lot of the time, players have no idea what they're asking for, or what they're saying.
This is going to sound cocky, but I don't intend it to. Every developer of a game I've spoken to states a similar thing, so this is an industry-wide observation...
You guys have no idea what you're asking for 99% of the time. You can have ideas, you can state things, but a lot of the time, you have no idea what on earth you're doing. You don't think like a developer, you don't theorise like a programmer. And why would you, you're not paid to. You purely think of it from a "MY ENJOYMENT" perspective, and again, why wouldn't you. But when you complain, you do it from that single perspective. You don't pan around and do it from ours, in most cases because you can't - who would expect you to have the knowledge of a programmer or game designer?
In almost all outfits, you have a VERY limited number of people contacting the community. Have you ever wondered why that was? People working in the industry get PAID to do their job, and they still don't like to talk to their community. That should give you an idea of just how far removed we have to be, not want, but have (as an industry). Sometimes I want to go into a fleets forum, post a topic, and ask for feedback, but it will be 100% biased, and the few times that I've done this, I've had to tell myself constantly to just listen, and not take the feedback. If they like the idea, but not the numbers, then you do it your way, not theirs.
You don't see the crippling server lag which forced us to change our architecture so we can't have un-connected systems. You couldn't see the process load that planets were putting on the systems, so we had to remove the point defence and firing systems for a more processor-friendly version. You can't see the fact that missions were broken because people were gaining 10k prestige a day just by spamming scout missions. You couldn't see the HORRENDOUSLY out of balance CL2K dessies which skewed kill ratio's so much one faction had 500% more kills than the other (has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, I'm aware you want to troll those few other K'Luth players who probably want to chime in). You didn't see the flux dreads which made the game completely unfun for those on the receiving end.
The be all, and end all of this entire thread is a problem.
Coeus states that people want to be overpowered, to be the superhero/villian. That's fine. But this is a PvP game. If you're going to be overpowered and have fun, there's someone on the other end who isn't having fun and is pissed off. When you've driven off all the people who want a balanced game, all you have left is people being overpowered to one another, and honestly, the mentality of those people leaves a lot to be desired for in a community. Ask any volunteer staff member during 483 what it was like. A lot of them left due to it.
Balance is always the best way to go. Those that want unbalanced fun can quite happily trott off to another game which is horrendously imbalanced.
Those complaining about X/Y/Z, for the love of all that is Faustus, please take a step back and ask yourself "I wonder why they did that?". It isn't because we hate you. We don't remove things because we think "THATS FUN, REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY!". There's always a reason. ALWAYS.
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-08-27 10:15 ]
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You always get so terribly defensive and we can all see it Jack. This isn't some personal attack on you. I'm not trying to bash this game or the work you have done for it.
The simple fact is, I am bored with a game I want to play. Its a terrible feeling when you can do nothing about it.
I am not a programmer.
I am not good with people, PR, graphic design or anything that could possibly be of use.
I could donate tons of money, but from a reasonable point of view I could never give enough for you to hire more knowledgable staff.
I even at one point thought of asking if I could host a server for you guys and maybe host a scenario type style with playermade maps.. but the loss of a map editor plus the condescending 'no' ill be expecting makes it not worth my time to even try. Plus im not sure it would hold any interest to anyone else anyway.
Perhaps on occasion I have spouted off on how easy it would be to make certain changes. But I absolutely do not actually mean it is an easy task. I am well aware, as well as anyone else that has been with this game for am extended period of time that this is a one/two man job with small help here and there from others. The dev log can tell you this.
All I can do is suggest and reminense, and do my best to paitently wait until the next patch. I *do* try to pop on beta when I can and try things out. But its too hard to spend much time doing it.. even more so since our dev team seems so defensive and critical of any feedback that isnt praised to the heavens.
People complain, bitch and moan. Its what we do.. giving that attitude back will get you no where with no help.
You're move, Jack. (Or will i just get deleted again?  )
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I'll chain you to the truth,
For the truth shall set you free,
I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
And bury you with honesty.
I'll make all your dreams come to life,
And slay them as quickly as they came.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2013-08-27 11:58
I'm well aware it wasn't a personal attack on me . I guess you're seeing what you want to see.
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