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A brief(ish) analysis of the Psychology behind Darkspace players. |
coolestguy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 30, 2010
Posts: 74
From: coolestguy
|  Posted: 2013-08-27 18:00
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 04:05, MarineKingPrime wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 20:10, Pantheon wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 19:46, coolestguy wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-26 18:50, Pantheon wrote:
it was that more people want balanced fun than to be overpowered and/or unfair.
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Just wondering but if thats true there should be more players on and a growing player base right?
I know ive been gone almost a year and there are far fewer players which is sad, this game is great.
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You jus... what?
You just quoted my post, questioned it, and then answered your own question with my post.
Perhaps you should read it again?
[ This Message was edited by: Pantheon on 2013-08-26 20:10 ]
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i think he meant that if people wanted more balanced fun, then more people would actually be playing the game.
really, you can have a very balanced game but it doesn't mean that it's well designed or fun. i almost have zero motivation to login because theres no point.
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Thank you and totally agree with you about the motivation, im logged in for about 5 min at any given time before im board and log off 
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 2044
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2013-08-27 18:47
I prefer a fair fight over a curbstomp any day. If I want to curbstomp stuff I play some singleplayer game on easy difficulty.
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-08-27 19:30
If anything really drives players away, it's a lack of easily accessible action.
Darkspace is incredibly fun when something is actually happening.
Release or beta, it doesn't matter too much, if there is an ongoing fight which can be joined, it's typically fun.
Once the need of finding action is met, then balance does come in to play, because nobody wants to join a fight just to get repeatedly... as was put... curb stomped.
Someone who has never played finally gets the game installed and connects, what do they run into?
:Alright, choose a team... (Hmm, is this permanant? I need to give it some thought)
:I picked a team... hmm, looks like some kind of map... red and green areas... must be friendly and hostile territory?
:I have no idea what I'm doing, I'll try this "Assault Frigate"
:How do I launch? Do I select one of these white things?
:I selected a thing, the game kinda tweaked out for a moment, but whatever.
:There, launched, I'm in an orbit around a planet, it seems?
:Where do I go? F1 directs me to press F2 for navigation and explains some basics.
:I don't know what is going on, all I see are several dozen planets with a transport around each one.
-several planet dives and jump fails later-
:There's nothing going on, how do I jump to a specific spot? Am I supposed to go somewhere? I can't see any other players.
-several minutes later, after going through a few gates-
:Finally! A hostile! It looks like an NPC... hmm, a Parasite? Cruiser?
-opens fire on the parasite, twerks around a bit, watches it slowly take damage-
-Parasite returns fire, beam alpha penetrates weak side armor and promptly destroys the frigate-
:wth you can't even evade it?
Excerpt from "some guy I tried introducing the game to"
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2013-08-27 19:31 ]
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Sheraton*XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light
Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 482
From: Keel Mountains
| Posted: 2013-08-27 20:46
Just my two cents, for whatever it is worth. I do believe there are a few things that people generally overlook.
1) Despite claims to the contrary an enhanced ship is not a guarantee of victory, there are numerous factors in any battle: Player count, AI count, Positioning of the ships at the start of the fight, the factions they are using, etc..
2) The options for killing dreads do not rely solely upon using other dreads or even cruisers. it is entirely possible at this moment for a scale or a parasite to kill dreads, and even a claw properly piloted is a problem due to the slow turning on the dreads, it mainly comes down to how creative you want to be in your attack imo.
3) Most people tend to define winning as killing another person. I find this to be a small minded, no offense to anyone, definition. Winning in my book can be something as simple as staying alive or fending off that LH that was about to nuke your planet or surviving an attack by 3 Battle Dreads (not picking on UGTO just what came to mind).
4) The disparity of power between the upper and lower classes of ships can, in my opinion, be overcome by the prolonging of combat so that the dreads and higher class ships do worse as the battle goes on and other factors cause them to take damage.
All of these are simply some observations I have made. You may take from them what you wish.
-Sheraton
[ This Message was edited by: Sheraton *XO* on 2013-08-27 20:48 ]
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xTx
Chief Marshal
Joined: September 10, 2005
Posts: 101
From: Canada
| Posted: 2013-08-27 21:34
483 was the best patch ever, the anger felt when you logged on to your systems being leveled was what made the game. the feeling that you needed to avenge made for historical battles. MV could be conqueored by a faction leaving some factions with a few glassed planet to rebuild and seek revenge. Political correctness is the reason Dark Space is the game we have today.
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Orkan [OO-XII]
Grand Admiral
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: April 22, 2010
Posts: 201
From: A Point Perfectly Computed Yet Never Repeating
| Posted: 2013-08-27 23:06
Quote:
On 2013-08-27 19:30, Fluttershy wrote:
If anything really drives players away, it's a lack of easily accessible action.
Darkspace is incredibly fun when something is actually happening.
Release or beta, it doesn't matter too much, if there is an ongoing fight which can be joined, it's typically fun.
Once the need of finding action is met, then balance does come in to play, because nobody wants to join a fight just to get repeatedly... as was put... curb stomped.
Someone who has never played finally gets the game installed and connects, what do they run into?
:Alright, choose a team... (Hmm, is this permanant? I need to give it some thought)
:I picked a team... hmm, looks like some kind of map... red and green areas... must be friendly and hostile territory?
:I have no idea what I'm doing, I'll try this "Assault Frigate"
:How do I launch? Do I select one of these white things?
:I selected a thing, the game kinda tweaked out for a moment, but whatever.
:There, launched, I'm in an orbit around a planet, it seems?
:Where do I go? F1 directs me to press F2 for navigation and explains some basics.
:I don't know what is going on, all I see are several dozen planets with a transport around each one.
-several planet dives and jump fails later-
:There's nothing going on, how do I jump to a specific spot? Am I supposed to go somewhere? I can't see any other players.
-several minutes later, after going through a few gates-
:Finally! A hostile! It looks like an NPC... hmm, a Parasite? Cruiser?
-opens fire on the parasite, twerks around a bit, watches it slowly take damage-
-Parasite returns fire, beam alpha penetrates weak side armor and promptly destroys the frigate-
:wth you can't even evade it?
Excerpt from "some guy I tried introducing the game to"
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Fluttershy is on point with much of this. Many times when I was noobin around in Van Maanen there was no one around. Truth be told i was a bit anti-social and quite liked the emptyness of space. The few times i ventured into Sagitarius I was exterminated and promptly. Okay, i thought, Space itself is dangerous let alone space filled with veterans of a ceaseless three-way conflict. To me the MV was merciless and full of dreads so i turned to scenario to up my pres and begin my career in off-world construction before comin back to the MV when I earnt my first Destroyer. This was back when approachin an enemy planet got you missile locks plenty plenty. Now I'm patient and like the long distance run of things but I would say that that makes me an exception rather than the rule. Most people as Fluttershy pointed out want something right here right now, and DS grew on me. Unfortunately many other new players may not have the patience or time to allow it to grow on them. No immediate action = log off and laters, let me load some shooter or other space mmo or rpg whatever.
The lack of a 'hook' for want of a better word means many people may see it and then simply forget about it as the newbie servers are a ghosttown and so is the MV on occaision. Getting to the action requires considerable time, effort, knowledge, persistence and desire and those traits may be hard to come by someone trying to just check the game out to see if it's worthwhile. I read the manual but that's just me, many players feel they shouldn't have to just to have a bit of a shoot out. For DS to be truly successful it should cater for all player types especially the casual gamer for that is what the majority of gamers are, casual, and not just specialist hardcore AD&D types.
I sometimes have a yearning for stats (statistics), I don't know where it comes from but even to this day i feel unsatisfied with the info on the ships, the game dynamics and the metaverse itself. I want pie charts, comparisons weapon damage tables, graphs, gadget ranges in a graphically well presented form, the 'Jack-online gadget resource' is excellent but bad for the end-user from a user interface point of view. I realise it's a two man team and I appreciate all the hard work put in but that don't cut no mustard with a new player who's thinking 'should I stay or should I go' based on half an hour's interaction with the website and server. I hate to say this as i can't stand bling mentality but other people are so affected by it on a psychological level (even myself at times i suppose) but appearances and first impressions count. Perhaps a new website look will make a lot of difference with some animated shockwave flash junk on it as well as some sort of 'attention given to the new player' in server be it through optional messages or tutorials or even link ups to vets or academy's or whatever. At the end of the day Fluttershy's friend gave excellent third person insight. Noobs need to be eased in with more warmth, respect and assistance but not so that they feel crowded or accosted by someone desperate for attention. This is always best done through some form of graphical menu screens. I've always liked the fact that i don't know from in game how K'luth look, it adds suspense and that air of mystery. Personally i dislike defined npc characters with cheesy names that i've got to put up with. I like the fact that here the community defines itself. Some take themselves seriously while others are just jokers. DS's User Interface could use a polish. Gameplay is where it's always been at and DS is excellent when people are on in that respect. It's not the actual game that's really the problem I think but rather the presentation, advertising and new mentality of current gamers that expect things to be or look a certain way before they consider committing to something. Also bear in mind that other games are 'better' psychologically at retaining players due to certain 'slot-machine' tactics as put up in a previous thread but yes they have whole teams of paid devs to do what they do. Anyhow, I'm very much looking forward to 1.7 and i hope you are too.
Your faction needs YOU!
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Demorian
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 06, 2001
Posts: 3406
From: Charlotte, North Carolina
| Posted: 2013-08-28 00:09
Quote:
A brief analysis of the psychology behind Darkspace players - as presented by a crazy.
Yes, yes. I know what you’re all thinking – “Coeus? Doing a psychoanalysis? More like a psychotic analysis!” Well to that I say, Go eat some earwax! Seriously, it’s supposed to be good for settling your stomach, or so the voices tell me. It takes a crazy to understand the crazies, that’s my rational.
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*rationale
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In any event, on with the show!
Plain as day that the population of DS is a mere fraction of what it once was. An MV that used to boast numbers in the dozens or hundreds now more often says “Perfect” than not: and clever PR phrasing aside, we all know what that means. Now obviously time plays a good part in this: DS is an OLD game, and I do mean OLD! For comparison: DarkSpace came out in 2001. World of Warcraft didn’t even enter closed beta until 2004! Now I don’t need to recite DS’s accumulated history: If you really are that interested & don’t know, check out the Wikipedia page & elsewhere on the internet. All I will say in regards to DS’s past is that it hasn’t been perfect.
And that right there I think is the problem. DS has never been perfect, there have been glitches and exploits galore, but as time goes on great strides have been made in order to balance the game out. Simultaneously, we have seen the populations plummet. Each new patch release has been heralded as a breakthrough in the balance and equality of the gameplay mechanics. In looking at the history of DS and just the mental outlook of gamers in general (Hell, how about Humanity in general?) shows that this may be a grave mistake.
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Scratch "In looking at."
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“How?” You ask? Well it’s quite simple really. People don’t want a fair fight, they want to win, and they want to slaughter their opponents while they do it. As Bronn in Game of Thrones said when accused of not fighting with honor, “No. He did” pointing to the airborn grave of his vanquished opponent.
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*airborne. Seriously, man. You and words that end in 'E's.
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In this world of online gaming, everyone wants to be the best, everyone wants to be the superhero or the supervillan.
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*villain
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Gamers want the perverted satisfaction of mounting a Heavy Mass Accelerator on a Battle Station and flinging a trio of uberpowered Level 10 QSTs at cruisers sitting at a planet & one shotting them. They want to fly into a battle scene with a Missile Dread mounting 9 Flux Wave devices and royally screw up a bunch of ships at once before self destructing on a disabled EAD. Gamers want to cheat, exploit, lie, trick, and manipulate their way into a victory worthy of retelling in the chatroom after.
Think about it, when is the last time that someone was having a good laugh in chat talking about “That was such a fair fight! It was three on three, we were all in Battle Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers, and we each played to our factions strengths and the best pilots came out on top because they were able to maintain the best positioning for the longest time!” Never, nada, doesn’t happen!
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This is a lie unwoven by the history of the Galactic Navy, among many other of the oldest and wisest fleets. Also, the prior statement was highly conceited on my part. But also true. Don't tell this guy DarkSpace's never had a fair and honest fight. You know better.
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Want to know why? Because fair ain’t fun! Tractor Scouting, that’s fun.
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I may or may not turn into Michael Shannon for the remainder of this post.
AND YOU KNOW FULL WELL THE VEHEMENT THREAT THAT SUCH ENTAILS.
Quote:
Station Docking & zipping around attached to a scout – that’s fun. An AC mounted with six nuke mines cluster-mining a jumpgate exit – THAT is fun! Balanced gameplay with limited modding options on perfectly tweaked ships? It’s entertaining for a little while at best.
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Coeus. Coeus.
...Coeus.
Have you ever played a decent space combat simulator other than DarkSpace? What you've just described has been done, and well. But you're right, DarkSpace shouldn't chase that dream.
ORRRRRRRRRR...
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There is a reason that many of the players who lived through 479, 480, 481, 482, and 483 look back fondly on those times with a chuckle and a laugh. It was so frustrating and yet at the same time, the pure ridiculousness of it all made the moments enjoyable. Sure there were many times where we would just rage quit or planet hug, but if we stuck around, we had a chance to see something truly outlandish and silly. Sabbot Rocket MD? Why not! Psi-Cannon Battle Dread? Go for it! You’ll be out of energy, but HOLY HELL What a light show! How about a Bomber Dread MIRV Cloud the size of a planet? We can do that!
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I stuck around because the people were cool. And I enjoyed banning idiots. I wrote the rules on exploits that allowed moderators to start enforcing them; because they always annoyed me, and were never fun.
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The days when gold bombing badges were as easy to get as a bronze jump badge, and the corresponding construction pres for trying to build a planet that will take more than one demented persona to level – those were exasperating, maddening, and infuriating, but they were also days of action and a climate of constant change and massive flux (pun intended). Going back further, to the “Golden Age” of Scenario and the pre-SY days. How about it? 10-20 minutes into a Scenario and being able to whip out an Assault Dread and get into some quick, dirty, and intense combat. It was simple, it was unbalanced, and it was FUN!
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Wasn't fun because it was unbalanced. Was fun because it was a damn good game.
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When you break down the direction the game is going, and the mentality that most gamers exhibit, they are headed towards opposing culminations. If you need examples, look no further than the aforementioned WoW. What keeps bringing people back? The answer is the never-ending quest to have the best gear to be able to do the most damage and kill the biggest things as fast as possible. Balance never enters into it – the vast majority of endgame players who stick around in these games want to have the most overpowered setup in the game.
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DS genre != WoW genre. Your argument is invalid.
For additional evidence toward this end, here's Neil Patrick Harris in front of a double rainbow:
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This is all looking at the typical “Hardcore” gamer mind you, which make up a decent percentage of the MMO market, but quite possibly an even larger segment of the gaming community is made up of “Casual” gamers. This is another segment that DarkSpace has abandoned in it’s quest for flawless balance.
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*its
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Like the Borg laboring onward in single-minded pursuit of perfection, DS forces players to adapt or die: And when they don’t adapt they simply disappear into the wind.
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For God's sake, put a comma in the place of that colon. Or if you want to get fancy and break rules but still pass for a creative writer, use a period. But the colon's just wrong.
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What does this mean for DarkSpace? It’s hard to say, because despite all this there definitely is an enjoyable quality to a fair fight, but it’s not a lasting enjoyment, and it’s not a challenge in the sense of “How can I one-up them next time & avoid being flux-bait?” but something as subconscious as “How can I change my firing pattern in order to do more damage to the port quarter next time I’m in that exact angle?” I’m not calling for DS to revert to 480, that’s gone for good. Which, when you think of it, is a shame. I’d wager dollars to donuts that if DS put up a 480 server, and actually advertised it and emailed old players there would be a decent resurgence. Nowhere near the 100-~ish 480 daily average, but enough to get some good stories.
Enough rambling from the crazy though, these are my thoughts on the state of DS, why it was what it was and why it is what it is. What do you lot think?
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Am I the only one who remembers how many people screamed for a reversion to .480, and for a reversion to the version before that, and for a reversion to the version before that, on and on and on? Don't worry about clarifying whether you're calling for it or not; if you were, it'd be nothing new by at least ten years.
Because seriously, that was ten years ago.
I decided to troll my way through your post's imperfections just to trollishly contradict you and point out that imperfections are okay. Imperfections are innate to this game, to this post, and to every other game and thoughtful/silly post out there to be played/read. And it's okay.
And I'm really not sure how a post on the Psychology of we lot became another subtle rallying cry for the good old days and a not-so-subtle shot at balancing efforts as if games are more fun for everyone when they're left in a state of imbalanced chaos—THEY'RE NOT—but it's ironic, because that's real Psychology, right there. We tend to view the past as better than it actually was, and that's not really unique to DarkSpace players.
So the rallying cry's not that interesting to me. What's interesting is that a functioning and passionate community is still here, ALMOST TWELVE YEARS AFTER I SIGNED UP. That seems, to me, to be much more an indication of things having gone much better than average in DarkSpace. Why all the passive-aggressive, thinly-veiled fuss? What's the matter? DarkSpace is still running. GameCQ chat is still operating. That's neat.
Why the old days were better? We've read that study before, here and elsewhere.
Why you're still here... now that's interesting.
Let's think about that for a change.
-Dem
[ This Message was edited by: Demorian on 2013-08-28 00:10 ]
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2013-08-28 00:57
Brief question here.
How many of you old guys from 10 years ago still actually play the game?
And not just log in to lobby camp and chat.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-08-28 01:06 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
| Posted: 2013-08-28 01:25
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 00:57, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Brief question here.
How many of you old guys from 10 years ago still actually play the game?
And not just log in to lobby camp and chat.
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I think many have wanted to but they were unable to resolve an issue where it failed to launch... and yes we did the whole thing with admin rights and so on... vcredist_x86 fixed launch problems in a few cases too, not sure if that was for GCQL or the game.
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2013-08-28 01:42
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 00:57, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Brief question here.
How many of you old guys from 10 years ago still actually play the game?
And not just log in to lobby camp and chat.
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*raises hand*
[ This Message was edited by: Chewy Squirrel on 2013-08-28 01:42 ]
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*FTL*Soulless
Marshal
Joined: June 25, 2010
Posts: 787
From: Dres-Kona
| Posted: 2013-08-28 08:45
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 00:57, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Brief question here.
How many of you old guys from 10 years ago still actually play the game?
And not just log in to lobby camp and chat.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-08-28 01:06 ]
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*raises hand* under a diff account though
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
| Posted: 2013-08-28 10:56
kung fu is fun, but it was implemented so that the general population can farm. Poeple deciding their own balance works to a limit, if someone gets corrupted that person is to powerfull. fortunatly there are other ppl waiting and ready to overthrow an unrightfull power. the games was self-balanced and ready when it was realised, each new patch was to solve problems from the previoous version, and will continue to do so.
Sure you can change the game, but infinite changes will await you. In the beginning everybody was a brad pitt fan, for lack of other words. Now some like to use the snooze button.
using wierd options is fun, using options unavailable to others is less fun, but only if exploited. exploited means overusage, means use it every time you can
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-DBS
Marshal
Joined: January 04, 2011
Posts: 204
From: St. Petersburg, FL
| Posted: 2013-08-28 13:16
I want a 3 ship penetrating cannon. InstaKill. Even if it just has a few rounds  MultiKill bonus would be a plus!
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AdmiralChaos
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 274
| Posted: 2013-08-28 13:28
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 00:57, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
Brief question here.
How many of you old guys from 10 years ago still actually play the game?
And not just log in to lobby camp and chat.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2013-08-28 01:06 ]
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<-
Major reason why people miss the older versions is because of the people that played before you. Just feels like every major patch is some sort of huge change that not everyone can understand and enjoy.. when other things should have been done first
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I'll turn the screws of vengeance,
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I'll make all your dreams come to life,
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coolestguy
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 30, 2010
Posts: 74
From: coolestguy
| Posted: 2013-08-28 17:37
Quote:
Major reason why people miss the older versions is because of the people that played before you. Just feels like every major patch is some sort of huge change that not everyone can understand and enjoy.. when other things should have been done first
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Hit the nail on the head.
Its funny to see people justify the patch "outcomes" as there is no one playing the game now lmao.
Weee this is fun killing AI.....and more ai.....Oh a player!...aww he logged.
[ This Message was edited by: coolestguy on 2013-08-28 17:38 ]
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